Web Design Forums

i3lance · 11-10-2006, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgo

Good article on getting started designing sites the right way:

http://www.cameronmoll.com/archives/001211.html

Yeah seen it mate, useful even for seasoned designers as it says.

btw - Where you been? Not seen or heard from ya on 3D either.

Limbo · 25-10-2006, 05:39

CSS Search Engine: http://skuer.com

EngAdven · 31-10-2006, 16:24

Don’t try to create your first site from scratch. You’ll spend hours and go around in circles.
Initially copy some free templates or use a css wizard and start by just changing one part of the design. Then each site you make you can get more adventurous. You’ll soon get the hang of it with going mad trying to get it to work in all browsers.

LorEye · 12-11-2006, 10:06

I've been trying to teach myself CSS. We're supposed to be learning it at school, but the instructor who thinks tables are God has been very vague on the details of CSS, and she uses Dreamweaver to teach us.

My question is, can CSS be used to make your design (including graphics) a constant, and any and all content seperate. So that if you want to change one link on your page it will change all pages (similar to how frames or php works I guess)

Transmogrify · 12-11-2006, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by LorEye

I've been trying to teach myself CSS. We're supposed to be learning it at school, but the instructor who thinks tables are God has been very vague on the details of CSS, and she uses Dreamweaver to teach us.

My question is, can CSS be used to make your design (including graphics) a constant, and any and all content seperate. So that if you want to change one link on your page it will change all pages (similar to how frames or php works I guess)

No. this isn't what css does. it describes how your html document looks, not the content of a document.

White Shift · 12-11-2006, 13:40

CSS styles the presentation.
HTML formats the data.
XML describes the data.

I don't know if this has been said already, but ALWAYS COMMENT YOUR WORK. It'll help if you have a lot in your CSS file and if any of it seems like gibberish.

asariyski · 30-11-2006, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Shift

I don't know if this has been said already, but ALWAYS COMMENT YOUR WORK.

...but keep the comments to yourself (except if you want someone else to see them).
It is dumb to publish commented markup as in downloading 1-2k bulk data along with your website - although it is insignificant in size, it is still bullshit for the browser.

Tadhg · 18-12-2006, 09:09

Just getting stuck into CSS for the first time and found this thread really helpful, nice one!

ashgilpincom · 01-01-2007, 21:41

CSS-only sites are quite overrated. What's the point, really? Maybe when CSS3 is widely available then you can do CSS-only sites because CSS3 is supposed to support div columns (something not currently available in CSS2).

For the time being, you want to stick to hybrid sites. Use as much CSS for site layout as possible but use tables for tabular data and the such. Plus, doing all of those hacks to get things working on all web browsers - that's just for the birds.

You can check out my site, eyepinch.com. View the source. You can see that most all of my site is in DIV/CSS. Only certain pages use tables - hence, only use it when it's needed.

olivermonkey · 07-01-2007, 13:20

ashgilpincom,

I have just had a look at your site and it seems to have a lot of hardcoded styles. Where possible you should attach and ID or Class to your div's and implement the style using your CSS. There is also a lot of Javascript code in the page, this would be better being sat in external JS files and just linked to. This helps when spiders traul your site, many have a limit to how much info they scan, so if they have to search through loads of JS at the top of the page they may never get to reading the actual information on the site.

Sorry for the rant but you seem to have implemented some good pieces of CSS and followed them up with some poor bits. As a final point you also seem to have put your nav's in as Definition Lists (DL) and Definition Titles (DT) but I would advise you to use Unordered Lists (UL) and List Item (LI) instead. DL's should be used for information and their definitions. So definition lists should have <dl>, then definition title <dt>, then definition description <dd>.

Apologies again, if you have any questions I am pretty CSS savy, I've spent the last two years building sites using it everyday.

jantuan · 11-01-2007, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by max h

Any good css reference book recommendations?

I read the The Zen of CSS Design: The enlightenment for web by Dave Shea, it's great just great for those who are experienced with CSS, but novice in CSS-layout style.... a book constructed on examples, and includes a lot a lot of useful stuff.

Strongly recommend.

microdesign · 21-04-2007, 13:16

great topic guys!

martinaz23 · 22-04-2007, 13:27

i think the best place to start is w3 schools website

and also good reference

Limbo · 06-05-2007, 09:23

Really clever trick.

CSS Image Rollover Map ~ Europe ~ Sample

Could be applied in many ways.

Naatan · 10-05-2007, 04:42

2 words, float & clear

herkalees · 14-05-2007, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashgilpincom

CSS-only sites are quite overrated. What's the point, really? Maybe when CSS3 is widely available then you can do CSS-only sites because CSS3 is supposed to support div columns (something not currently available in CSS2).

For the time being, you want to stick to hybrid sites. Use as much CSS for site layout as possible but use tables for tabular data and the such. Plus, doing all of those hacks to get things working on all web browsers - that's just for the birds.

You can check out my site, eyepinch.com. View the source. You can see that most all of my site is in DIV/CSS. Only certain pages use tables - hence, only use it when it's needed.

That is just being lazy. Aside from tabular data (because it's supposed to be in tables), there isn't a design out there that cannot be made without tables.

TheTigerHobbes · 13-06-2007, 02:55

Ok, stupid question time. I realize that this has probably been answered a bunch of times and in a bunch of ways, but bear with me.

I admit that I haven't really started to get into CSS. At this point, I use it to style things like font faces and whatnot as a supplement, but I do most of my sites in Flash or HTML.

I'm not really big on CSS as it applies to making a site super flexible. After I've spent a long time working on a meticulous design, I don't want people messing it up by scaling things or changing the layout of the content or anything. I tend to put things where I put them for a reason, and I like the idea o f them staying there.

So my stupid question is, what's the huge deal about CSS? I hear all the time about how amazing it is and how everyone needs to start using it. But when it comes right down to it, bearing in mind what I've said above, how will my websites be benefiting from it?

If I can get some honest, helpful answers, I'm definitely up to start giving it a shot.

Larixk · 13-06-2007, 04:40

To me it's all about seperating mark-up from content:
- what happens when the site needs a redesign in 2 years: In stead of having to recode all of the pages a switch of css file will do the trick.
- your pages will still be well browsable without mark-up. This improves SEO and accesibility.
- It feels right. It feels structured.

TheTigerHobbes · 13-06-2007, 17:12

I saw that the CSS Zen Garden was recommended earlier. As a beginner at coding sites entirely with CSS, is that a good place to start?

herkalees · 13-06-2007, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTigerHobbes

So my stupid question is, what's the huge deal about CSS?

Coding without CSS is like writing the same email to 300 of your friends without being able to use the CC feature of your email program, nor the copy > paste ability of your operating system.

It's just a waste of time to not use CSS.

25-10-2006, 05:39	#82 (permalink)
Limbo On yer bike... Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,691	CSS Search Engine: http://skuer.com Last edited by Limbo : 25-10-2006 at 06:34.

01-01-2007, 21:41	#89 (permalink)
ashgilpincom AshGilpin.com Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 22	CSS Only - Overrated CSS-only sites are quite overrated. What's the point, really? Maybe when CSS3 is widely available then you can do CSS-only sites because CSS3 is supposed to support div columns (something not currently available in CSS2). For the time being, you want to stick to hybrid sites. Use as much CSS for site layout as possible but use tables for tabular data and the such. Plus, doing all of those hacks to get things working on all web browsers - that's just for the birds. You can check out my site, eyepinch.com. View the source. You can see that most all of my site is in DIV/CSS. Only certain pages use tables - hence, only use it when it's needed.

07-01-2007, 13:20	#90 (permalink)
olivermonkey Web Monkey Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 11	ashgilpincom, I have just had a look at your site and it seems to have a lot of hardcoded styles. Where possible you should attach and ID or Class to your div's and implement the style using your CSS. There is also a lot of Javascript code in the page, this would be better being sat in external JS files and just linked to. This helps when spiders traul your site, many have a limit to how much info they scan, so if they have to search through loads of JS at the top of the page they may never get to reading the actual information on the site. Sorry for the rant but you seem to have implemented some good pieces of CSS and followed them up with some poor bits. As a final point you also seem to have put your nav's in as Definition Lists (DL) and Definition Titles (DT) but I would advise you to use Unordered Lists (UL) and List Item (LI) instead. DL's should be used for information and their definitions. So definition lists should have <dl>, then definition title <dt>, then definition description <dd>. Apologies again, if you have any questions I am pretty CSS savy, I've spent the last two years building sites using it everyday. Last edited by olivermonkey : 27-02-2007 at 07:31.

13-06-2007, 04:40	#98 (permalink)
Larixk Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Utrecht, Netherlands Posts: 856	To me it's all about seperating mark-up from content: - what happens when the site needs a redesign in 2 years: In stead of having to recode all of the pages a switch of css file will do the trick. - your pages will still be well browsable without mark-up. This improves SEO and accesibility. - It feels right. It feels structured. __________________ larixk.nl/

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31-10-2006, 16:24	#83 (permalink)
EngAdven Specialist SEO CMS Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Devon, UK Posts: 28	Don’t try to create your first site from scratch. You’ll spend hours and go around in circles. Initially copy some free templates or use a css wizard and start by just changing one part of the design. Then each site you make you can get more adventurous. You’ll soon get the hang of it with going mad trying to get it to work in all browsers.

12-11-2006, 10:06	#84 (permalink)
LorEye amateur Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 95	I've been trying to teach myself CSS. We're supposed to be learning it at school, but the instructor who thinks tables are God has been very vague on the details of CSS, and she uses Dreamweaver to teach us. My question is, can CSS be used to make your design (including graphics) a constant, and any and all content seperate. So that if you want to change one link on your page it will change all pages (similar to how frames or php works I guess)

12-11-2006, 13:40	#86 (permalink)
White Shift http://pseudocrap.net/ Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: England Posts: 44	CSS styles the presentation. HTML formats the data. XML describes the data. I don't know if this has been said already, but ALWAYS COMMENT YOUR WORK. It'll help if you have a lot in your CSS file and if any of it seems like gibberish.

18-12-2006, 09:09	#88 (permalink)
Tadhg ... Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: London Posts: 83	Just getting stuck into CSS for the first time and found this thread really helpful, nice one!

21-04-2007, 13:16	#92 (permalink)
microdesign Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 165	great topic guys!

22-04-2007, 13:27	#93 (permalink)
martinaz23 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 18	i think the best place to start is w3 schools website and also good reference

06-05-2007, 09:23	#94 (permalink)
Limbo On yer bike... Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,691	Really clever trick. CSS Image Rollover Map ~ Europe ~ Sample Could be applied in many ways.

10-05-2007, 04:42	#95 (permalink)
Naatan Web Developer Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brussels Posts: 214	2 words, float & clear

13-06-2007, 02:55	#97 (permalink)
TheTigerHobbes Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 28	Ok, stupid question time. I realize that this has probably been answered a bunch of times and in a bunch of ways, but bear with me. I admit that I haven't really started to get into CSS. At this point, I use it to style things like font faces and whatnot as a supplement, but I do most of my sites in Flash or HTML. I'm not really big on CSS as it applies to making a site super flexible. After I've spent a long time working on a meticulous design, I don't want people messing it up by scaling things or changing the layout of the content or anything. I tend to put things where I put them for a reason, and I like the idea o f them staying there. So my stupid question is, what's the huge deal about CSS? I hear all the time about how amazing it is and how everyone needs to start using it. But when it comes right down to it, bearing in mind what I've said above, how will my websites be benefiting from it? If I can get some honest, helpful answers, I'm definitely up to start giving it a shot.

13-06-2007, 17:12	#99 (permalink)
TheTigerHobbes Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 28	I saw that the CSS Zen Garden was recommended earlier. As a beginner at coding sites entirely with CSS, is that a good place to start?

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