[LorEye]

I have been thinking. and I think that I just don't get it.

I learned CSS in school. Before that it did not really exist to me. I used bits and pieces without knowing it was "CSS". Before I used strictly tables or frames. (I know, you can all barf now, or whatever)

I still use tables. With a string of code like this

body,td,th {
font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: small;
color: #666666;
}

to make the style consistant... and that's all I thought CSS was.

What is CSS? How do you go about building a CSS layout? I can whip up a table layout in ten minutes once I have all the images ready.

Are layers the key to CSS? Is that the layers can be positioned anywhere you want or need?

#Layer {
position:absolute;
width:388px;
height:115px;
z-index:6;
left: 277px;
top: 133px;
}

I thought I knew what I was doing with CSS, but as I read up on it, it seems like there is more to it than positioning layers.

[SMILEdotCROSS]

All will be revealed here - http://www.htmldog.com/

[LorEye]

okay, kind of. I recognize all that stuff. I guess I never realized how similar css was to html. it's just html with a twist. using div tags and layers to position stuff.... I knew all that. But I still think there is something that I am missing in the understanding of what I'm doing when I slave over the keyboard positioning and repositioning elements of a webpage. I get tired of it and take my easy way out to the tables.

[herkalees]

Originally Posted by LorEye

okay, kind of. I recognize all that stuff. I guess I never realized how similar css was to html. it's just html with a twist. using div tags and layers to position stuff.... I knew all that. But I still think there is something that I am missing in the understanding of what I'm doing when I slave over the keyboard positioning and repositioning elements of a webpage. I get tired of it and take my easy way out to the tables.

Please do the internet a favor and find a new hobby.

[SMILEdotCROSS]

Originally Posted by LorEye

okay, kind of. I recognize all that stuff. I guess I never realized how similar css was to html. it's just html with a twist. using div tags and layers to position stuff.... I knew all that. But I still think there is something that I am missing in the understanding of what I'm doing when I slave over the keyboard positioning and repositioning elements of a webpage. I get tired of it and take my easy way out to the tables.

As you work with CSS more you will get used to positioning objects on the page, Also CSS is not like HTML at all it isn't just used for poisitioning it is used for adding color, text-decoration, borders, margins, padding etc it can even (depending on your browser) add text shadow to text now. I would have a look at some of these site to see what is possible with CSS:

CSS Remix
CSS Mania
CSS Vault » The Web's CSS Site
CSS Beauty | CSS Design, News, Jobs, Community, Web Standards
CSS Import™ | The CSS Gallery

for more CSS galleries click here

[d*d]

you'll soon get bored of being so helpful to the swarthes of what's css? and why can't i use tables questions

[R1gM]

Anyone who makes a css layout using a million z indexes needs to be fucked in the ass by the biggest rape train in alabama then have their cock chopped off in a sign of protest.

You just don't get it dude you don't put in absolute positions for everything etc there are slightly diffrerent techniques but the point is when fat joe the table layout master has to change his layout it takes him a redesign or the moving of table cells in his favourite dreamweaver esc program where as slim jim his css layout guru friend simply takes ten minutes to change his css code once and that changes the whole site.

Not to mention the other benefits, lower load times, less confused layouts, validating markup that looks right with style sheets off as well as on, accessibility guidelines and meeting them and most of all its just easier and cleaner to read in code view and fills your pages with less crap.

[d*d]

Originally Posted by R1gM

Anyone who makes a css layout using a million z indexes needs to be fucked in the ass by the biggest rape train in alabama then have their cock chopped off in a sign of protest.

A bit harsh, what do you do if they use tables anally rape thier mother?

[Spooky]

Let's not attack them; they're asking for someone to clue them in a bit more, that's all.

[LorEye]

thank you Spooky. .

and fuck you herkalees

[herkalees]

Sorry, but I've spent many years learning the right way to code and when I come across someone simply unwilling to learn how to code properly also, it bugs me a bit. It's the right way for a reason, stop being ignorant.

[pgo]

Read this, all of it.

Developing With Web Standards | 456 Berea Street

Also relevant:

Lame excuses for not being a Web professional | 456 Berea Street

HTML and CSS are nothing alike. They're completely different languages with completely different syntax and purpose.

FORGET "LAYERS" - it's a meaningless term found only in Dreamweaver that completely misleads people.

If you want to take the easy way out by using tables, fine, but don't expect to be employable.

[LorEye]

I am not unwilling to learn. I have been self taught on everything I do. And I'm confused on one little thing.

And I think it's because, like pgo said, my instructer at the school taught us about CSS using dreamweaver. Until dreamweaver came along I did everything by hand.

[weldo]

then go back to hand coding - problem solved.

[LorEye]

yes, that's true. I think I'll pick up on it a lot faster now. Especially if I open up that notepad and work with my hands, because thats how I learned everything else I know.... stupid dreamweaver is slowing me down. I do agree that it's a good tool to have on the side.

[herkalees]

Originally Posted by LorEye

And I think it's because, like pgo said, my instructer at the school taught us about CSS using dreamweaver. Until dreamweaver came along I did everything by hand.

Dreamweaver is not a valid excuse; it was your instructor that did you wrong.

In fact, some of my best sites were made in Dreamweaver (yes, I have since moved onto TextMate), because I never used "Design View", or any of those property panels. I merely used Dreamweaver to hand code everything, because I liked how it assisted when you coded by hand, doing things such as closing your opening tags, and it's site-wide find and replace couldn't be beat.

Blaming Dreamweaver is like blaming guns; it's not the product that does the damage, but the person using it.

Anyway, if you're only confused 'on one little thing', then overcome that confusion and join the ranks of many other good code-writers.

[pgo]

Originally Posted by LorEye

yes, that's true. I think I'll pick up on it a lot faster now. Especially if I open up that notepad and work with my hands, because thats how I learned everything else I know.... stupid dreamweaver is slowing me down. I do agree that it's a good tool to have on the side.

Don't use Notepad. Only people who want to appear "hardcore" will use Notepad.

Just use Code View in Dreamweaver. Syntax highlighting is a great thing.

Maybe you should look at TopStyle.

[Blue Ire]

Originally Posted by LorEye

I am not unwilling to learn. I have been self taught on everything I do....

And I think it's because, like pgo said, my instructer at the school taught us about CSS using dreamweaver.

Care to attempt to reconcile those two statements?

I've never actually met a highly paid developer who wrote in notepad. Most of the people who say things like that need that claim to give them something others don't have, besides a basement apartment they share with their mother.

[Agricola]

problem is when people say they use DreamWeaver or that microsoft crap, Front Page, many people assume they simply use the WYSIWYG features and so on, however likes of DW now have good editors, so you can use DW without producing crap looking pages, most of crap webpages produced in likes of DW are produced by amatures ,mainly the children of the boss who say "oh daddy we did that in school i can do your companys website with Front Page"

I dont actully use FP or DW, however i make use of a number of tools, yes i used to be hard core and learnt my HTML many many years ago with notepad.. but when moved on to PHP and so on, it just wasnt up to the task, proper editors with syntax colouring is a must, you can easily see if you didint close a rem statement for example as the whole text will turn green or whatever, same for leaving tags unclosed or other syntax errors.

At moment i am quite happy using my PHP and so on using Utlra Edit EUStudio etc.

As for the OP, you do need to learn properly take time to learn the basics well and rest will fall into place, if you are still struggling all this time, then obviously you do not posess the natural ability and logical thinking to be succesful coding etc, so maybe look to do another job. Bricklaying and plumbing for example which pay just as much if not more than webdesign.

Oh a nice free HTML Editor can be found here
crimsoneditor.com

[LorEye]

wow, you guys turned around so fast.

I think I learned a lot in just a few short days since I posted that I didn't understand. I started by looking at a simple CSS layout and being able to piece it back together on my own.

What I meant about the self taught thing is that I was selftaught until 2 years ago when I thought to myself "I have to get the piece of paper that says I am qualified" and when I signed up I was having a moment like I"m having now, I just didn't get it.

And when I said the using notepad, what I meant is I used to build everything right in my web directory. Back when I was teenager with my angelfire site (aha, good times) I just opened up the little html editor it provided and went nuts. And I still did it when I got my first domain, and used things like this until dreamweaver, and things got so much easier. You are right about it being helpful. And it's a lot faster to preview something in dreamever and see a mistake, or 'I gotta move this a little more to the right' and 'why is that on the bottom? I want it to be on the top'

I don't live in a basement apartment with my mother. I live alone above a pizza place in a spacious 2 bedroom apartment with my three cats. Hubby's in the military.