[hawken]

flash is good for experience.

it's not good for information.

[d*d]

Originally Posted by learn

Flash can use a CMS just like HTML via Action Script.

Not quite, css in flash is limited to the point of useless

Originally Posted by learn

D*D is right.

I agree with that

[longisland6]

design for the need.

[w1sh]

Flash is alright if you use it in light doses and know how to make your Flash SEO-friendly.

Also, like everyone said, it's a pain in the ass for right clicking/clicking back/browser functions that we've all gotten used to and use constantly.

There are a few instances where Flash sites work, but for the most part, XHTML/CSS/JS is the way to go until Flash figures out something for the above mentioned problems, then I will totally switch to Flash (as I love the ease of animation).

For you though, I'd make myself as much of a versatile developer as I could by learning Flash, XHTML/CSS, JavaScript, and a server-side language (PHP).

[d*d]

Originally Posted by w1sh

Flash is alright if you use it in light doses and know how to make your Flash SEO-friendly.

Also, like everyone said, it's a pain in the ass for right clicking/clicking back/browser functions that we've all gotten used to and use constantly.

You are now banned from talking about flash until you learn to use it - you CAN add back button functionality and you CAN change the right click menu.

People being lazy or not knowing how to use flash is the main problem with flash

[PartDigital]

Flash should be used as a spice, just like AJAX. It should improve the experience but not be the ENTIRE experience.

Also before you do something with flash, see if you can do it with JavaScript.

[Shiro]

Why? I'm curious now. If the back button can be used, the right-click menu can be created, and the content can be indexed, then why shouldn't Flash be used?

[martin54]

Yeah I haven't been convinced to stop using it for simple sites, the major reason that stand out for is employers. Most will still dislike the poor misunderstand beast.

I am in the process of trying to to disable the back button, just got this JavaScript;

// Reload the page
window.location.reload();

// Go to the current point in history
window.history.go(0);

Unfortunately I have no idea how to use it. Do I simply past this into a JavaScript Document and upload it to public folder?

[martin54]

Guess not (didnt work)

[b.]

Case in point: the Adobe store is made in flex (so I believe) and the non-native scroll bar doesn't work with a scroll wheel. Major annoyance. If it wasn't Adobe I'd have hit the back button.

Flash is good for games, use HTML and AJAX for pretty much everything else...

[Shiro]

That just sounds like bad implementation on Adobe's part though (which really doesn't make sense though - they should know how to use their own software) because I know the scroll wheel can be implemented in flash.

[martin54]

Originally Posted by bjzaba

Case in point: the Adobe store is made in flex (so I believe) and the non-native scroll bar doesn't work with a scroll wheel. Major annoyance. If it wasn't Adobe I'd have hit the back button.

Flash is good for games, use HTML and AJAX for pretty much everything else...

Can you send a link to which part of the store? My wheel works fine

[b.]

They seem to have fixed the problem now, probably after many complaints. My point is, if all the architecture is already there in the browser itself, why use a plugin? Adobe could have easily created an (X)HTML page... and it probably would have been easier too. I'm not a web design expert, or a programmer, but from my perspective HTML combined with AJAX is far simpler a solution for most applications. At least for the user - and maybe the developer (of which I have no experience).

I love my back button and my right-mouse menu, and I won't let anyone take that away from me!

[w1sh]

Originally Posted by d*d

You are now banned from talking about flash until you learn to use it - you CAN add back button functionality and you CAN change the right click menu.

People being lazy or not knowing how to use flash is the main problem with flash

Seems like a lot of work to make Flash function well.

Besides, some people block Flash programs from running (me) because they've turned into the advertiser's plaything. I suppose the same could be said of JS though.

[kaisellgren]

If a website is full flash, I leave it immediately. If it's header-flash-only, then it's ok.

[d*d]

Originally Posted by w1sh

Seems like a lot of work to make Flash function well.

I never said the pursuit of perfection would be easy - it is a a pain the first time but once you have the scripts it gets easier the next time round.

I'm not a flash evangelist - it's the general ignorance about the programme that people constantly pass off as advice that irks me

Originally Posted by kaisellgren

If a website is full flash, I leave it immediately. If it's header-flash-only, then it's ok.

why would you do that? did flash do something bad to you as a child?

some examples of flash used well here
The FWA: Favourite Website Awards - Web awards at the cutting edge

I know there are some pretty bad examples too, please don't bother to show me

[niggle]

why would you do that? did flash do something bad to you as a child?

The odd thing though is that the people who profess to hate Flash so much never seem to uninstall the plug-in.

A lot, if not most, of the all-flash sites you see have HTML-only versions which you would see if you just uninstalled the plugin. Problem solved, no?

[SHP]

I am a web designer for a company and use (X)HTML and CSS to build pages, and then use Flash to jazz them up.

In my opinion Flash really shouldn't be used for entire websites, however, I will admit I have seen some impressive flash only websites. Although interesting (and occasionally annoying), I think very nice/detailed flash websites take much more effort than what you get in return.

In my opinion if you want to work with a particular media, you should learn the media itself. It's like a painter that doesn't know how to use paint. It is not hard to learn HTML, and I felt that CSS was even easier to learn. Reverse engineer websites and learn what each line of code does, and soon enough you too can make great (X)HTML / CSS Websites. (I suggest downloading the FireFox Web Designer plug-in, this allows you to see just about every line of code within each website.) A great resource for (X)HTML / CSS ideas and inspiration is thebestdesigns.com. I use this resource all the time when thinking of ideas on how to get started on my next project.

I know Flash has all sorts of "fixes" that make it usable for web design such as implementing the right click, back button, etc.. but missing out on the ease of change using CSS seems silly to me. There's my 2 cents..

SHP

[learn]

Originally Posted by d*d

Not quite, css in flash is limited to the point of useless



I agree with that

Who said anything about CSS?

[Shiro]

I still haven't heard any good reasons why all flash sites shouldn't be used. Personally, I think that all flash sites can be great - they are flashy. The level of animation that can be achieved is significantly better than with html and javascript (with the exception of one site a guy posted on here one time that he did all in javascript that was amazing).

Now, is it worth the time, effort and money to build a site all in flash? Well that would be up to the person paying and/or spending money on it. But if they want to, and they do it right, then all the power to them.

And to say you leave all flash sites when you see them is the stupidest thing I've ever read. You won't look at a site because of the medium it's made on? Good for you. You're an idiot. If you left the site because it didn't work well or was functional, ok, I could understand that, but most problems with flash are for the site owner, not the user. The only exception would be load times.