[kiteflyer]

I am at the beginning of having gone freelance. At the moment I tend to charge clients per site that I am creating depending on what type of site, what they want done etc. etc.
But I am wondering if it isn't better to charge per hour of work done and how you all do it. how do you charge for updates, or changes made and that sort of thing.

so the big question is do you charge at an hourly rate or per site, why and how do you work out the qoutes for either option?

[indyaportal]

Our hourly charges $10. but we mostly charging project basis..that is better.

Originally Posted by kiteflyer

I am at the beginning of having gone freelance. At the moment I tend to charge clients per site that I am creating depending on what type of site, what they want done etc. etc.
But I am wondering if it isn't better to charge per hour of work done and how you all do it. how do you charge for updates, or changes made and that sort of thing.

so the big question is do you charge at an hourly rate or per site, why and how do you work out the qoutes for either option?

[Paul]

search the forums, you'll find a million threads like this

[kiteflyer]

Originally Posted by karloff

search the forums, you'll find a million threads like this

I think every question that can be asked has been asked already...
so with that in mind we should just stop replying to any posts at all...

[freelancr]

Originally Posted by kiteflyer

I think every question that can be asked has been asked already...
so with that in mind we should just stop replying to any posts at all...

Dude, this question really has been asked too many times. You would have a point if the answer wasn't on these forums about 100+ times already.

I would say most people charge per website, that way you can write up a contract with deadlines, project scope, and payment terms. To determine that fee, you estimate how long the project will take to make, you then double that time and call it your deadline. You then figure out how much you want to charge based on the hours it will take you, plus your expenses, and bingo.

If the client says yes, get a contract drawn up.

[combat sheep]

Originally Posted by indyaportal

Our hourly charges $10. but we mostly charging project basis..that is better.

can you not find work in your own country so you dont bring down the work scale and quality in our countries ?

[herkalees]

Originally Posted by indyaportal

Our hourly charges $10. but we mostly charging project basis..that is better.

$10/hr? Thanks for watering down our industry with your .NET and table-based templates.

Anyway, on topic, I sort-of do both. I give the client a set price for their project, but I come to that price on my own after determining the amount of hours I will spend, multiplied by $75.

[brubakrn]

Originally Posted by indyaportal

Our hourly charges $10. but we mostly charging project basis..that is better.

Um. I don't know from first hand experience, but I'm pretty sure prostitutes charge way more than that.

I kinda do what herkalees does. Just set an hourly rate, then estimate how much time I think the project will take based on scope and how difficult the client seems. Most of the time it's the client that makes things take longer than they should. Then I give them a number and outline the scope and let them know that anything beyond what I've outlined will cost an additional $50/hour, including updates.

[pgo]

Originally Posted by brubakrn

Um. I don't know from first hand experience, but I'm pretty sure prostitutes charge way more than that.

Indians can drastically undercut our rates because their cost of living is so much lower.

Of course, their work (in most cases) is sub-par, so I'm not too worried about my job, yet.

Originally Posted by heraklees

Thanks for watering down our industry with your .NET and table-based templates.

Hahaha, so true.

[Snowshiro]

Seriously, some of you are coming across as jingoistic asses. By all means criticize the guy for the quality of his work (I doubt anyone's actually seen it), but get off your pedestals over a bit of competition from another country.

It's hardly Indian web design that is dragging the industry down, but why not go for the cheap shot, because we all know how superior western web design is: Tentacles Web Design - Sarnia Web Design "Grab life by the Tentacles today!"

[herkalees]

Snowshiro, we call 'em like we see 'em, plain and simple.

[austers]

Originally Posted by Snowshiro

Seriously, some of you are coming across as jingoistic asses. By all means criticize the guy for the quality of his work (I doubt anyone's actually seen it), but get off your pedestals over a bit of competition from another country.

It's hardly Indian web design that is dragging the industry down, but why not go for the cheap shot, because we all know how superior western web design is: Tentacles Web Design - Sarnia Web Design "Grab life by the Tentacles today!"

Wow I thought i had seen great design until I saw this

[pgo]

Snowshiro, I suggest you read my post again. There's a reason I said "in most cases". Just because people observe that the plethora of Indian "designers" and "developers" produce sub-par work doesn't make them jingoistic.

Would you scream jingoism if I said that the Japanese were better than Westerners at drawing anime? Because they are.

EDIT: Case in point. Instant Messenger as their primary means of communication? Spamming forums to drum up business? Spammy SEO tactics? An obvious template design? Please.

[cjgraphix]

If you are just starting out stick with project budgets. And figure out how long it take you to build average sites. Divide the total budget by the number of hours you put in... if the number is too low up your project bids.

When I bid on a project now the client sees a few things. A breakdown of hours for each specific item (design, front end development, back-end development, etc etc). Based on those hours combined I will give a complete project quote (anywhere from $50 - $125 per hour). If, for any reason, the number of hours gets used I will give 20% of total project hours at no cost. (10 hours gets 2 hours, 100 hours gets 20 hours) Anything above that gets billed at a discounted hourly rate.

Also, get every part of the site written out (scope), before you begin anything. That way, if something 'new' comes up you can bill for it as it was not included in the scope. Always be on the lookout for Scope Creeps, clients who try to get a bunch of additional functionality after contracts have been signed.

[vannova]

hi

it is always better to go for project wise price. but agin that has to be calculated on man days basis

[Dakko]

Whenever possible, I try to quote the project as a whole, versus quoting out an hourly rate. I divide the project into billable line items so there's a sense of what each part of the project is costing (sometimes, in case they want to scratch a given item), and I quote in dollars, not hours. I do this for two reasons:

1. If you give your quote as X hours at Y dollars per hour, you are far more likely to get haggled on both the time involved and your rate. My "corporate" rate is $115/hr. It works fine, but I am not interested in defending it to the thrifty.

2. As well, if a given project requires 30 hours of development, I don't want to spend time explaining why 30 hours of work translates into three or four calendar weeks of turnaround time. You're left in a position of explaining "other projects" and "budgeting time" and they feel marginalized, which no one wants.

All my quotes have two parts: the actual dollars, broken down into line items for consumption. They sign this to acknowledge the cost. I also include an overview, which a glorified outline of the site structure and functionality. I give a simple outline of the navigational headers and pages that will be on a site, as well as a description of extraneous functionality that will be included (a newsletter function, a photo gallery, etc.). They sign this to acknowledge the scope of the project.

Since I've adopted this process it's made my life incredibly easier. It takes a little extra time up front to draw it all up, but it helps prevent clients from trying to shortchange you at the end, claiming that such-and-such wasn't done, or that something was missing. You can then refer to the documents which show precisely what was included in the project, and for how much.

[neka]

Hourly rate with an estimation of how long it will take (probably best done with a timesheet).

[Yoyi]

Originally Posted by Snowshiro

Seriously, some of you are coming across as jingoistic asses. By all means criticize the guy for the quality of his work (I doubt anyone's actually seen it), but get off your pedestals over a bit of competition from another country.

It's hardly Indian web design that is dragging the industry down, but why not go for the cheap shot, because we all know how superior western web design is: Tentacles Web Design - Sarnia Web Design "Grab life by the Tentacles today!"

Thats is pure awsomeness.

LOOK AT HIS EYE IT TWITCHES

[jckpalmer]

RATES

I would charge by the project, find out what the user wants draw up a detailed contract outlining deadlines and project scope. These webdesign projects ALWAYS go over deadline if you haven't drawn up site design / development boundaries.

Give yourself 30% more time, add 30% more to your costs to develop the site and I would say your about there.

INDIAN OUTSOURCING

How shallow some opinions are, Indian people like US or Japanese or English have the same design, programming and ability as anyone else.

I found most Indian Outsourcing companies to be pleasant, professional and extremely talented!

They use all technologies and I find most use PHP / MySQL rather than .NET due to its availability and £0 price tag. Also with a detailed Spec and good communication PARTS of the job are done very well.

I don't use outsourcing for ALL aspects of my sites just the time consuming or complex coding parts. I'm a designer at heart and obviously use the best coders I can within the allowed budget, as I myself deal with small to medium sized companies I find using Indian Outsourcing to be a cost efficient means to get the work I need done.

STARTING IN THE INDUSTRY

Use every tool you can lay your hands on, Forums, Books, Videos, College, Outsourced Code, Outsourced Design whatever you can to make a buck, the hardest part is to keep earning a buck. Be strict with money and time and don't let people take you for a ride!

Learn from others and combine your knowledge with ideas from the web and you can't go wrong.

Don't forget economical design is 99% copy and 1% innovation

GOOD LUCK!

J