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Old 12-05-2007, 17:52   #1 (permalink)
BlueFusionX
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What is a good price to charge?

Hello everyone.

I am justing out in developing projects for clients, although I have been using HTML for 4 years and PHP and CSS for about 2 for personal projects. I am amost done with my first project which has taken me three weeks to make. The only problem is that I put nearly 120 hours in it, and the bid I put on it was $100, which was the maximum he would accept.


** Before entering this address, please understand that there is no SSL (the certificate is for his hosting, not my server) and in IE there is a few rendering problems with the navigation height and the borders on the top navigation. Thank you.
projects.bluefusionx.com/wsagames

The site I've been using to get clients has been getafreelancer.com. The problem with this is that the price some people post are way too low for the work involed with making these websites. I mean I work at Kroger as a side job and I make in two days what this 3-4 week project will pay. So my question is this: How much is too much to charge, and what is a good price to charge at my level? I've seen websites where a blog costs a few thousand dollars to create, while here I am designing a game rental website complete with use login and payment API functions for two days at a grocery store. As soon as I obtain good pricing knowledge, I'll include this in my portfolio and mark it as discounted for first project.

Thanks for your help,
Sam

Last edited by BlueFusionX : 13-05-2007 at 17:11.
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Old 12-05-2007, 19:44   #2 (permalink)
pgo
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Uh...does he actually think anyone's going to turst that site?

I wouldn't trust that site at all - it doesn't look or feel like it was built by a professional, therefore I wouldn't even begin to consider thinking about giving out my credit card details. It's not even going over SSL!!!

Anyone who thinks they can build what seems to be a video games Netflix type site for $100 is a complete moron and doomed to utter failure.

For a site like that, I wouldn't even think about anything less than $10,000.

My prediction for signups: zip. zero. zilch.

If this person wants to make money over the internet by starting a rental service he A) needs more than two games and B) needs to fork over the initial investment to hire a professional development team - not a grocery store clerk (no offense, he's the moron - not you).

I think you need to keep practicing what you do and get good enough at it that legitimate businesspeople will pay you respectable amounts of money to do work for them.
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Old 13-05-2007, 04:59   #3 (permalink)
BlueFusionX
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That's what I call good criticism!

Well, I never said the site was finished It was basically for a front-page view. SSL is being delt with at the moment, and I'm not making a certificate for my projects server if its his domain name.

As for the professionalism, I disagree in terms of the quality, I've put alot of perfection into this design, making sure everything is all right. The only known issue is in Internet Exporer 6 where the user navigation bar is about 50-100px larger. This and the issue of "two games" go back to the subject of not being finished. He has more games but I just needed to add them. I used those as a database test to make sure my coding was working properly.

As for Kroger, I need a job while I get this on the road. To stereotype someone based on their employer is absurd. If I were to just be doing this I would not have a backup source of income which I need.
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Old 13-05-2007, 05:30   #4 (permalink)
Blue Ire
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Well, the first thing you need to do is be objective about your work; you can't honestly tell me what you've built there is as quality as GameFly can you? It's not.

Secondly GetAFreelancer is made of 99% people in your situation, or your situation + in india. I can't imagine a reputable company posting there. And pgo wasn't stereo typing based on your employer... he was being honest and well, right. No one who seriously expects to compete with GameFly will have a budget of less than 50k for the site (probably closer to 90k-130k), and they won't be looking to hire a greenbanana with no portfolio. They'll go to a firm 9 times out of 10 - a known studio.

You are in a catch22, you need work to get work but to have work you need work... So, I'd suggest you continue on with small job here and there, and learn the tools in the meantime. At your current skill level you won't be bringing home enough to live on I'd imagine, so work hard and a year or so down the road you could start making it.

Put up a network of sites yourself, unrelated and different styles to show your talent, that's one option... it gives you a portfolio plus practice.

Bottom line, at this time you don't appear to be able to provide a service that (as mentioned above) a legit business person would be interested in... You can probably secure a bit of work from linkbaiters and adword whores though,99% of those idiots wouldn't know quality if it hit them with a 9-iron.

Oh, and is that CUBE or Sauer in the header?
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Old 13-05-2007, 09:53   #5 (permalink)
anotherô
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harsh criticism, but they're right...

what you've achieved is very good for a solo, early effort. it's solid, well polished, and there's no real bugs to speak of.

however, for a site like this to really work, it would take a large team of experts. and also a maintanence team. at which point, the 5 figure sums start to come into the game. i've learned that the front end is the easy bit. putting in the work to put all the pages in is the body of the iceberg, and is a huge job.

at the moment though, i'd charge $1k and stop working on it straight away.

i charge £100 to add a page to an existing site...
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Old 13-05-2007, 11:09   #6 (permalink)
microdesign
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i think 40 / 45 euros per hour is a nice price..
if your a bit more experianced you can ask a lot more 80 euros something like that.
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Old 13-05-2007, 13:07   #7 (permalink)
BlueFusionX
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On the subject of GameFly and Netflix: Although intended for it to function as much like Netflix as possible, It is lacking some things such as the FAQs. It was never really intended to work at all like GameFly. He has told me that he is going to be advertising locally alot with shirts, pens, etc. I believe he can be successful, and that his website has a unique look.
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Old 13-05-2007, 13:48   #8 (permalink)
2Dfruit
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just looked at your game rental site. THERE'S NO SSL! do you expect people to give you their credit card information when it's not even secure? Moreover, the site is buggy slow and poorly designed and isn't compatible with all the browsers.

That's really unprofessional.

edit: just read some of the posts. Seems you're working on the ssl.
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Old 13-05-2007, 17:06   #9 (permalink)
BlueFusionX
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Tell me more about poorly designed, please. I can't be expected to change something when I have no clue what the flaws are. There are two things that I know are wrong: 1) The top navigation links' borders are corrupted in IE, and that will be fixed. 2) The user navgation (Getting started, navigation) is alot larger in height in IE, and that will be fixed. Lastly, I think the footer navigation might look better with a "|" separator. Other than that, what is wrong? I really do appreciate you all taking the time to give me advice but could you be more specific on the details?

I really want to make this site look decent in your terms so that I can add it to my portfolio.
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Old 14-05-2007, 12:11   #10 (permalink)
Agricola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueFusionX
On the subject of GameFly and Netflix: Although intended for it to function as much like Netflix as possible, It is lacking some things such as the FAQs. It was never really intended to work at all like GameFly. He has told me that he is going to be advertising locally alot with shirts, pens, etc. I believe he can be successful, and that his website has a unique look.

What is the purpose of the buisness then if its not games rentals? Gamefly is a wonderful site to use, finding a game and going to check out is only like 3 or 4 clicks for whole process. This is how a rental website should work.
People who want to rent a game will be expecting to see something familiar, why do you think most game rental sites look the same ? Its down to the way the site is designed , the best retail website is Amazon, look at gamefly, look how that is constructed and layout similar to Amazon, why? Because it works and that is what people are familiar with, that is what people expect and are most happy with navigating.

Poorly designed in your case has nothing to do with how well you have coded, having all the Iís dotted and tís crossed. The webpage you have produced tells the viewer nothing about what kind of website it is, one of first things that you should have learnt is that people scan webpages no one reads them

When I looked at this webpage half of my screen is filled with a poor quality image and a band of blue underneath there is a huge amount of text disappearing off bottom of my screen that I cant be bothered to read. first thing that came into my head was that it looked like a MMORPG clan or fan portal site NOTHING AT ALL Gave the indication i could rent a game from it, and like other people even if i could i wouldnt as it looks like its been put together in 2 mins with someone using AFFRONT PAge

Anther tip, i see from code you have declared this to be XHTML 1.0 Strict but serving it up to firefox as text/html instead of application/xml.

w3 validator shows a number of errors that you need to fix. arkup Validation of

Anyway I am in danger of giving a lecture here, but that should at least point you in right direction.
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Old 14-05-2007, 18:14   #11 (permalink)
longisland6
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a very talented, creative friend of mine once said "there's no accounting for taste, or the lack thereof", and how true this is. what somebody considers good taste can be horrid to someone else. but i do believe there are some objective criteria to be considered when building a "professional" website.

there are so many little details that go into making a professional site that i just don't see here. i would strongly suggest starting to look at some award sites (css, flash, whatever...) and try to notice the differences these sites have from other, less accomplished sites. a strong attention to detail, balance, whitespace, color themes, information flow. i mean, in your site you have a bulleted list with almost the default bullets and the hover state is the text getting a bit bigger. if these element were part of a well thought out information architecture they might very well work, but here they just scream "amateur".

i think if you study design, in any field, you will start to learn how something is well put together, how it works as a whole, and becomes something unto itself, with an innate integrity. you can be the best coder in the world; it doesn't mean your a good web designer. ideally, that is a mixture of the two.
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Old 14-05-2007, 23:17   #12 (permalink)
BlueFusionX
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I've decided that after this project I will study designing more in detail. If you all might recommend some books or websites that would be great

I need to fix the MIME type issue in my attributes, thanks. As for the W3C validator I'll be fixing that in my proofreading stage when I fix the CSS.
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