Web Design Forums

mathias · 24-10-2006, 23:23

Tiresome subject, I know. I'd truly appreciate some real insight, though.

No website deal should commence without a contract, we all know that. I'm currently fine-tuning mine. Hit a wall in the 'Prototype' paragraph, though, so I ask you:
>How many different prototypes (or site concept mockups) should I have to make? What if they never like any of them? Or, how many 'alterations' should I give, if they do like a prototype I come up with, but need changes made?

Do you see what I'm getting at? Some people will pick your designs apart, wanting endless alterations made, if you allow it. I need to find a balance for this, and just wanted an experienced point of view on the matter.
Thanks!

Why do we need an emoticon that humps the air?

pgo · 25-10-2006, 00:38

It really depends on the project, but if you can't give them what they want with 5 or so Photoshop mockups then there's something seriously wrong with either you or them!

If it's them, that's why you have a contract.

After they've settled on a mockup, limit the number of major revisions. Of course, not everything is a major revision. If they decide they don't like the bullets you've designed, that's not a major revision. If they decide they want to move the menu from the left to a horizontal menu up top, that probably qualifies as a major revision.

Just my quick two cents.

This is why good communication is so important. You need to know exactly what they want beforehand. Have them show you some sites they like. Find out what they don't like. Etc.

mathias · 25-10-2006, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgo

This is why good communication is so important. You need to know exactly what they want beforehand. Have them show you some sites they like. Find out what they don't like. Etc.

Great, thanks for the info, man. You're above quoted statement touches on an issue I may always struggle with, but shouldn't have to. I mean this: Ideally, clients will understand everything about web design, but they sure as heck don't, so, like you said, communication is important. In this case, somehow educating your clients on web design before dev commences, which should pay off for everyone due to less time being taken for the project, and less revisions will be requested because the client was able to arm you with the information needed to produce something they actually want, rather than having to shoot in the dark for a few mockups, then, maybe, 'hit the nail on head'. Now the question: How do you prepare your clients to do this?

beacon · 28-10-2006, 19:37

I found this site to be a great resource when I first put together my contracts. Heaps of links to sample forms and documentation for designers.

sintaxi · 30-10-2006, 07:07

Im a firm believer in Two mockups. NO MORE. It does not help the client to show them any more than two. From there, Im usually willing to do as many revisions as it takes to make them happy but once they agree on the design it cannot have major changes without an additional contract. Also, I always charge for mockups. If you are not charging money, they will never settle, and want way too many changes. Paying customers are for some reason more happy. This works for me.

mathias · 03-11-2006, 13:40

So, you create TWO mockups and show them to the client at the same time, or you make one and if they don't like it, THEN you do a 2nd?

beacon · 04-11-2006, 01:01

I only present one initial mockup and work with the client to steer it in the direction they want. I don't think its necessary or efficient to create multiple completely different designs only to have one discarded.

aristoworks · 05-11-2006, 01:22

For most clients we provide some nice looking pencil sketchings prior to taking things digital. This may seem a little amateur but it's done the same way in the advertising and movie industries so why not?

There is an exception if we're talking a bigger budget client or one that needs a "board" approval. 98% of the time only 1 mockup with some adjustment is needed. If the client is unclear we do everything in our power to help them decide what they want prior to doing more than 3 comps. There has only been one incident in the past 2 years where more than 3 comps were needed and that was for a site that had multiple "country" versions involved so the marketing department had to be really careful w/ continuity. In this instance we had included a contract clause whereas any "concept" time was billed on an hourly basis once we reached a certain milestone.

24-10-2006, 23:23	#1 (permalink)
mathias Refrigerated User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Central US Posts: 163	Geez, another contract question... Tiresome subject, I know. I'd truly appreciate some real insight, though. No website deal should commence without a contract, we all know that. I'm currently fine-tuning mine. Hit a wall in the 'Prototype' paragraph, though, so I ask you: >How many different prototypes (or site concept mockups) should I have to make? What if they never like any of them? Or, how many 'alterations' should I give, if they do like a prototype I come up with, but need changes made? Do you see what I'm getting at? Some people will pick your designs apart, wanting endless alterations made, if you allow it. I need to find a balance for this, and just wanted an experienced point of view on the matter. Thanks! Why do we need an emoticon that humps the air?

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25-10-2006, 00:38	#2 (permalink)
pgo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,340	It really depends on the project, but if you can't give them what they want with 5 or so Photoshop mockups then there's something seriously wrong with either you or them! If it's them, that's why you have a contract. After they've settled on a mockup, limit the number of major revisions. Of course, not everything is a major revision. If they decide they don't like the bullets you've designed, that's not a major revision. If they decide they want to move the menu from the left to a horizontal menu up top, that probably qualifies as a major revision. Just my quick two cents. This is why good communication is so important. You need to know exactly what they want beforehand. Have them show you some sites they like. Find out what they don't like. Etc.

28-10-2006, 19:37	#4 (permalink)
beacon Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 7	I found this site to be a great resource when I first put together my contracts. Heaps of links to sample forms and documentation for designers.

30-10-2006, 07:07	#5 (permalink)
sintaxi Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 8	Im a firm believer in Two mockups. NO MORE. It does not help the client to show them any more than two. From there, Im usually willing to do as many revisions as it takes to make them happy but once they agree on the design it cannot have major changes without an additional contract. Also, I always charge for mockups. If you are not charging money, they will never settle, and want way too many changes. Paying customers are for some reason more happy. This works for me.

03-11-2006, 13:40	#6 (permalink)
mathias Refrigerated User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Central US Posts: 163	So, you create TWO mockups and show them to the client at the same time, or you make one and if they don't like it, THEN you do a 2nd?

04-11-2006, 01:01	#7 (permalink)
beacon Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 7	I only present one initial mockup and work with the client to steer it in the direction they want. I don't think its necessary or efficient to create multiple completely different designs only to have one discarded.

05-11-2006, 01:22	#8 (permalink)
aristoworks <insert clever title> Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Nashville, TN USA Posts: 17	For most clients we provide some nice looking pencil sketchings prior to taking things digital. This may seem a little amateur but it's done the same way in the advertising and movie industries so why not? There is an exception if we're talking a bigger budget client or one that needs a "board" approval. 98% of the time only 1 mockup with some adjustment is needed. If the client is unclear we do everything in our power to help them decide what they want prior to doing more than 3 comps. There has only been one incident in the past 2 years where more than 3 comps were needed and that was for a site that had multiple "country" versions involved so the marketing department had to be really careful w/ continuity. In this instance we had included a contract clause whereas any "concept" time was billed on an hourly basis once we reached a certain milestone.

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