[sjd]

I just noticed - this site is using Flash for the general forum topic headers, e.g. General Forums, Design Forums, etc. !!

Talk about lead by example.

Anyway, I can't see them any more because I've got adblock installed.

[MikeMackay]

I believe it's purely a cosmetic thing using sIFR

- Mike

[d*d]

Originally Posted by sjd

I just noticed - this site is using Flash for the general forum topic headers, e.g. General Forums, Design Forums, etc. !!

Talk about lead by example.

Whats wrong with using flash exactly?

[sjd]

I've got no problem with flash used in the right context as long as it gracefully degrades. Just checked the site and it does! Never heard of sIFR... reading about it now (http://www.mikeindustries.com/sifr/). At first glance it looks f**king brilliant. How long's it been around for then?

P.S. I would strongly argue that using flash for fonts is a bad idea, mainly because regardless of whether it gracefully degrades or not it prevents resizing, prevents highlighting for cut-and-paste and prevents display completely if someone (like me) is blocking flash.

Also, I can't notice any difference between the look of the flash text and the look of the normal text. Why use flash for this?

[Accurate]

Which bit is using flash exactly? I don't see it.

[NevF]

yah, i can't see it either but you need M/media Flash v.6 or greater

[sjd]

Originally Posted by aspx

sigh.... the javascript detects if you have flash or not,

I wasn't arguing about graceful degredation - as I already said, it does.

Originally Posted by aspx

and you can highlight text in flash, just means you need to do something to the .fla, not quite sure what though.... seen highlightable text on alot of news pages of flash cms jobs.

Well, you can't highlight it on this site, which means...

1. You can not highlight the text - usability issue.
2. You can not resize the text - accessibility issue.
3. You're loading flash to provide replacement text that looks exactly the same as the original - performance issue.
4. You're forcing the user to have a particular version of flash installed - just plain annoying.

As I said, I've no problem with flash as long as it's used in the right context - it's not - and as long as it gracefully degrades - it does (brilliant).

So, sIFR looks great, but it's being completely misused here. Is there an emoticon for overkill?

[top_buzz]

Sounds like your full of problems with it to me!

[d*d]

Originally Posted by sjd

I wasn't arguing about graceful degredation - as I already said, it does.

Well, you can't highlight it on this site, which means...

1. You can not highlight the text - usability issue.
2. You can not resize the text - accessibility issue.
3. You're loading flash to provide replacement text that looks exactly the same as the original - performance issue.
4. You're forcing the user to have a particular version of flash installed - just plain annoying.

As I said, I've no problem with flash as long as it's used in the right context - it's not - and as long as it gracefully degrades - it does (brilliant).

So, sIFR looks great, but it's being completely misused here. Is there an emoticon for overkill?

great, another accessibility nazi, just what this forum needs - you forgot to take into account the audience for this site - webdesigners
so for the visually impaired designers with low spec machines and no flash player - sorry

[sjd]

Originally Posted by d*d

great, another accessibility nazi, just what this forum needs - you forgot to take into account the audience for this site - webdesigners
so for the visually impaired designers with low spec machines and no flash player - sorry

I'd argue you're not much of a web designer if you don't take these things into account - you're completely ignoring the medium of your work. And how the hell do you know there aren't any partially sighted users on this site that are viewing it at low res without flash?

Anyway, I'm glad you said that. Less competition.

[sjd]

Let the battle commence...

[Limbo]

Move on.

[sjd]

Yeah. I was just winding him up. Should have put a at the end or something.

Anyway, I'm not a great designer, but I am (obviously) concerned about usability issues. Flash is not my forte either. And when I say that I mean I know sod all about it.

This sIFR thing... How many people use it? How long has it been around? sIFR seems to solve a lot of problems with the usage of flash. I wonder why I've not heard about it before...

[Limbo]

thanks for clearing that up

[top_buzz]

Originally Posted by sjd

This sIFR thing... How many people use it? How long has it been around? sIFR seems to solve a lot of problems with the usage of flash. I wonder why I've not heard about it before...

Because you were too busy hating anything flash related, so it slipped on by

[mdude85]

Originally Posted by sjd

I'd argue you're not much of a web designer if you don't take these things into account - you're completely ignoring the medium of your work. And how the hell do you know there aren't any partially sighted users on this site that are viewing it at low res without flash?

Anyway, I'm glad you said that. Less competition.

You're not much of a web designer if you don't take into account your audience when designing a website. d*d is exactly right in presuming that from an accessability/usability standpoint, Flash isn't used poorly on a site where the vast majority of users are likely to be browsing this site with software and hardware designed to handle Flash. Should sIFR be used on CNN.com or the Drudge Report, where users from dozens of browsers and hundreds of different countries and standards are accessing the page at once? Probably not. Could it be used on a website where the majority of users are accessing the page with up-to-date browsers, higher resolutions, and above-average processing power? Most likely yes.

[pgo]

Should people who visit the Drudge Report be drug out in the street and shot? News at 11.

Otherwise, you're right. Accessibility can never be absolute and is always relative to your audience.

Sifr's been around for a few years.