[Tob25muk]

Hi all, I was wondering what everyones views were on what skills web designers/developers should have when starting off trying to get a permanent job with a company.

What would you say about the following - just examples,

For web designers :

XHTML
CSS
JavaScript
W3C Standards

For web developers :

PHP + SQL?

or do you go for the ASP side?

Graphics :

Flash & Actionscript
Photoshop, Fireworks Etc

Also when can you say that you are proficient in a skill such as PHP or SQL? I'm guessing it takes time and experience to say you are experienced with skills. How long do you think it takes to learn 'the basics' of PHP and SQL?

Will be interesting to hear your thoughts

[tomson]

Originally Posted by Tob25muk

For web designers :

XHTML
CSS
JavaScript
W3C Standards

I have none of those

[gray]

cowboy

[finbarr]

theres no timescales on learning? its down to the individual... each will learn at their own pace. Some are more disposed to development work and others to design.

If you're wondering what you should be proficient in then I'd say all of the above and more. If you're serious about a web design career then the more you know the better... an employer will almost always opt for the applicant with the most under his belt

[Stickman]

..depending on how well you know it. Don't want to be a jack of all trades, master of none type.

[finbarr]

Originally Posted by Stickman

..depending on how well you know it. Don't want to be a jack of all trades, master of none type.

very true

[wazzupflow]

It also depends on the kind of work you want to be doing. If you learn up on php, mysql, and js, but really prefer to design, layout pages, you might end up being stuck as the back end guy. I think more techs under you belt the better, but always make sure you're proficient at what you like/do best.

[Ytrav4]

I think You should learn most of if not all thouse skills, in order to be well rounded, but I think it will take a long time, to be good in every field. I'ts easy to say I know CSS and just know the codes, and in that since I do know it, but knowing the dry theory isn't enough, knowing how to use that knowlege to the best extent takes time. Any dummy can use PS, it's not hard, but to many times these people been equated on the same level, with thouse that can master the tool. It may look the same on a resume, but in pratice is another story. So I guess try to find a nice balance between knowing diffrent things and devoteing enough time to each to at least get decent skills.

[Luke Redpath]

I'd expect a web developer to be proficient in XHTML and CSS as well as their server-side language of choice.

[cam]

I've always believed graphics monkeys should do their colouring in and web monkeys should make their pretty pictures work.

[Ytrav4]

Originally Posted by cam

I've always believed graphics monkeys should do their colouring in and web monkeys should make their pretty pictures work.

I don't understand, why these are two seprate jobs, I think it's better to be able to do both ,web coding isn't so indepth that it needs a serperate field, so employers don't need to waste money. But on the other hand it allows the person to focus there mental energy on that one field and master it.

[MikeMackay]

Originally Posted by Ytrav4

I don't understand, why these are two seprate jobs, I think it's better to be able to do both ,web coding isn't so indepth that it needs a serperate field, so employers don't need to waste money. But on the other hand it allows the person to focus there mental energy on that one field and master it.

It's very rare to find someone who is fantastic at both graphic design and coding, whether you're talking XHTML or PHP. Generally you'll fall in to either:

Designer or Coder

If you haven't got great graphic design skills then your sites will most likely look a bit pants. If you're fab at graphic design but can't code, then you'll end up Dreamweaving your entire site.

I too believe that the graphic design & coding should be handled by seperate people who can both put their knowledge of their field together to create something fab.

Of course if you are fantastic at both, then we all hate you

- Mike

[Dusteh]

I disgree with that a little, I think web designers should have knowledge of CSS and XHTML so they can understand the constraints when it comes to designing for the web. I agree that finding someone who is both a professional level coder AND designer is like gold dust - and generally webdesign firms wouldn't expect you to. Unless you are a maverick, and if you are truely skilled at both then hats off to you - getting a job will not be hard.

I'm a freak in that I am proficient in XHTML and CSS along with the photoshop skills. I'm used to Quark/Illustrator and general print layup - and I'm a 3D modeller.

Try explaining that with a catch-all job title.

[gray]

i have to do design and code, photoshop, illustrator, php, ajax, XHTML, css, actionsctipt, animation.

im not bad at any of those really, php would be my weakest skill, but i have created shopping carts, content management systems and loads of other working apps.

im working on my motion graphics skills now.

[Narate]

No chance Im going anywhere near Flash

[hawken]

I dearly wish I could do action script and make games. Also I'm buggered when it comes to php mysql intergration, I just don't have a clue. Tried my hand at learning director 3d once too, but that was a brickwall too.

I think web designers should be able to do the following:

Photoshoppe
Flash Animation
HTML markup (without the aid of a WYSIWYG app)
CSS
some DHTML
some PHP understanding

I think Dev's should be great if not perfect at doing all the other stuff that makes the internet work.

[d*d]

I learn what I what I want to do the things i want to do.

[pgo]

Tom25muk is basically right.

It is nice, however, for people to have some level of crossover skills. That is, if you're a graphic designer working on websites, you should keep up with visual trends on the web and understand that the web is not print.

The web designer should have some backend skills - that is, understand what's going on, even if the server-side code sorta looks like gibberish. Also, the web designer should be fairly proficient in Photoshop and have some visual design ability.

As well, the web developer should have some front end skills - understand and work with the web designer to have his backend code spit out good front end code.

It's all about teamwork, baby. Everyone on a team should understand the importance of the others' jobs and work together efficiently.

But don't forget information architecture.

web coding isn't so indepth that it needs a serperate field

Um. Wrong.

[Ytrav4]

Ok, my previous statment may have been worded wrong, any programing will be in-depth as it's always changeing and there is many things to learn, but does it take any exceptional talent? I can't see a reason why a artest can't learn codeing, when most of it's about memorization rather than inovation, but on the other hand not every coder can be a artest IMO, either you have a skill for or you don't, design is mostly I think about creativity ,inovation and talent. Something you can't learn in a book.

[Dusteh]

I have to disagree with that as well, the way I see it web coders are mathematical people by nature, logical - left hemisphere people. Designers by their very definition are right hemisphere artistic types. I really do think that there are psychological differences that make you suited to one role or the other, thats why finding someone who can do both equally well (or at least enjoy both equally) is rather rare.