[d*d]

Originally Posted by Dusteh

I have to disagree with that as well, the way I see it web coders are mathematical people by nature, logical - left hemisphere people. Designers by their very definition are right hemisphere artistic types. I really do think that there are psychological differences that make you suited to one role or the other, thats why finding someone who can do both equally well (or at least enjoy both equally) is rather rare.

Bollocks to that, I'm good at Maths - does that impair my design skills?

I think it's more down to the way we are educated, far more emphasis on the importance of Maths and Science in schools - so people who have abilities there tend to carry on instead of looking toward their artistic tendancies.

[Dusteh]

Its not so much technical aptitude as much as mindset. Do you enjoy ploughing through code problems as much as designing?

Although there is a school of thought that, yes, your skill at maths could be at a cost to artistic talent, because one side of your brain will always be dominant. To quote good old wikipedia:

Reasoning functions such as language are often lateralized to the left hemisphere of the brain.
Visual and music functions such as spatial manipulation, facial perception, and artistic ability seem to be lateralized to the right hemisphere.

Its a universal internet rule that all server-side language sites run by tech-heads look utter shit - there are physiological reasons for this :p

[bigcloud]

Designer or programmer, there's a level of technical aptitude that each of us has. It was said earlier that it is indeed a rare find to see one person develop both something that is beautifully designed and beautifully programmed. I firmly believe that that designers are good at what they do and vice versa for programmers. I also think that for a project to gain a modecum success, it's imperative that relationships be formed with people that enhance both sides of this design vs. functionality debate.

Just a couple of thoughts from a... oh I don't know what you would call me.

[Ytrav4]

Yeah, the whole left side right side thing, I have read up on that too, I guess that is the case most of the time, but I dont feel that I'm the same way, , I'm a big tech junkie, I build/repair computers and love the technical stuff, but I also been drawing since I was little, and pretty good at it. I dont see myself special or anything, I guess I just love both.

I can't find anything more fun than the two, each one you do you have to throw your self into another mind set, sometimes it sticks though, If I write CSS to much I start imagining my thoughts beginning and closing with tags, or if I begin talking at the same time as someone else I think of CSMA/CD.

I guess if you can't draw/design give it a try and learn something new or vice versa, because they are both rewarding, and a perfect marrage.

[mx]

Originally Posted by Tob25muk

For web designers :

XHTML
CSS
JavaScript
W3C Standards

For web developers :

PHP + SQL?

or do you go for the ASP side?

Graphics :

Flash & Actionscript
Photoshop, Fireworks Etc

FULL HOUSE!
what do I win?

Originally Posted by Dusteh

Its not so much technical aptitude as much as mindset. Do you enjoy ploughing through code problems as much as designing?

I find that a similar level of enjoyment can be gained from design and coding, as both offer problem solving that can be achieved through a variety of roots. Web design is about being able to understand both, which is best achieved through the doing. Design in ignorance of coding and vice versa creates nothing but problems.

[Ytrav4]

As of today, the function of a website dosn't seem to be too complex, even when it comes to server-side scripting, regardless these functions are universal, and some what basic, and in time as we seen in CSS things are getting simpler. In my opinion the complexity hasn't reached a point to justify independent study.

This I think is one of the things most great about web-design, is that it is a independent art. To contrast the similarites, remeber back in the DOS days when a single person could devolop a video game and be successful? Now the gaming industry has lost that individual feel to big corperations and just the proccess of evolution. The web is still in it's infancy compared to what it could become, and I question whether this will be the same fate, the indviual only becomeing good in numbers greater than 1.

Changeing gears.....
Not to undermind the importance of codeing but,
If I could give a ratio of the avarage web-site I think maybe it would be around 30% codeing - 70% Design, so I see graphic design to be more of a imperitve, in learing web-design. That's the avarage of course, there are always exceptions.


------Technical stuff for thouse that may pick apart my statments--------------
To be technically correct the words best,complex,simple and important are deeply subjective, and in themselves hold no merit, only based on avarages we can help define through commen perception.

[weldo]

you need to get out more, oh wise one ....

and maybe take a book on spelling with ya ....

[Ytrav4]

Originally Posted by weldo

you need to get out more, oh wise one ....

and maybe take a book on spelling with ya ....

Leave elegance for the taylor...

but really your right

[Luke Redpath]

Originally Posted by Ytrav4

Ok, my previous statment may have been worded wrong, any programing will be in-depth as it's always changeing and there is many things to learn, but does it take any exceptional talent? I can't see a reason why a artest can't learn codeing, when most of it's about memorization rather than inovation, but on the other hand not every coder can be a artest IMO, either you have a skill for or you don't, design is mostly I think about creativity ,inovation and talent. Something you can't learn in a book.

You have a serious misunderstanding of whats involved in programming. Its not just about memorising function names/syntax etc any more than graphic design is about memorising Photoshop shortcuts. Good programming is also about design.

[Mik]

Originally Posted by gray

cowboy

yee haw.
me neither.

[Ytrav4]

Originally Posted by Luke Redpath

You have a serious misunderstanding of whats involved in programming. Its not just about memorising function names/syntax etc any more than graphic design is about memorising Photoshop shortcuts. Good programming is also about design.

I'm guessing your a programmer, my knowledge of programming dosn't lye beyond CSS and that's what I speak of when I say programming, not conventional programming. Anything beyond that is out of my field and is left out of my opinions.

[Mik]

Originally Posted by gray

i have to do design and code, photoshop, illustrator, php, ajax, XHTML, css, actionsctipt, animation.

im not bad at any of those really, php would be my weakest skill, but i have created shopping carts, content management systems and loads of other working apps.

im working on my motion graphics skills now.

you want a fucking medal?

hows after effects? nice i take it.

[pgo]

Originally Posted by Ytrav4

design is mostly I think about creativity ,inovation and talent

That must be why all the kids who had no artistic talent or ability whatsoever at the art school I attended all went for graphic design.

Actually, that's not entirely true, but you could tell who was there just because they didn't want to have to do math and science.

Originally Posted by Ytrav4

I'm guessing your a programmer, my knowledge of programming dosn't lye beyond CSS and that's what I speak of when I say programming, not conventional programming. Anything beyond that is out of my field and is left out of my opinions.

And CSS isn't programming as it doesn't..."do" anything.

Point is that most professional jobs require creativity. For instance, I work with a lot of engineers, scientists, computer programmers, graphic designers, marketing types, etc. They're all creative in different ways that apply to their respective field.

The graphic designers using Illustrator are no more creative than the engineers using SolidWorks. Or the chemists coming up with new compounds and uses for those compounds.

One more thing - the right-left brain thing is a bullshit excuse people use when they're afraid of math or science or art or music (or anything). 95% of us are perfectly capable of learning any damned thing we want.

"I'd take a more advanced math course if I weren't so right-brain oriented."

I know it's bullshit because I've been guilty of it. It might have taken me longer to learn calculus than some more mathematically inclined people, but I could have done. Of course, I'll never know because I wussed out.

[Ytrav4]

Originally Posted by pgo

One more thing - the right-left brain thing is a bullshit excuse people use when they're afraid of math or science or art or music (or anything). 95% of us are perfectly capable of learning any damned thing we want.

You are damn right, people have that potential, the theory is true to a small degree, but way over exaggerated. I was wondering if someone else was thinking that too

[Dusteh]

Planning and designing a CMS or shopping system in my view is not a traditionally creative activity. Yes there is the overall creation of the functionality... but after that how can you call the coding creative in the artistic sense of the term?

[d*d]

Originally Posted by Dusteh

Planning and designing a CMS or shopping system in my view is not a traditionally creative activity. Yes there is the overall creation of the functionality... but after that how can you call the coding creative in the artistic sense of the term?

answerd your own question there, you keep reffering to creative only in the artistic sense

[Ytrav4]

I believe there can be creativity in function only when that function has reached to a certian complexity.

I guess I can sum it up with this anology.

Imagine you have a 2 switches,you can switch them on or off, you only have 4 combinations, not much room for inovation right? , but imagine thouse numbers multipled, and the more choices you have, thus the more creativity in the way you choose the combinations.

If web-programming has reached the level of complexity to allow so much choice, how is that most designers adequently code and design? I'm shure designers are smart but I don't think were talking about Da Vincies here.

Creativity is not limited to art it's limited to choice.
This is why art ,music and writeing are deemed the most creative, they have endless choices. Many times I know the creator of these works by seeing there use of lines, words, or tones.

Tell me the code-in web design that I can see that's so individual that I can instantly reconize it's creator.

[Stickman]

I know a bloke who was paid to put jam in doughnuts. He could decide how much jam goes in, whether to weight the jam to one side, whether it was sealed properly and he had loads of doughnuts to do each morning and every one could be unique.

Was his job creative? Discuss.

[Ytrav4]

I think when makeing food you have ample room for creativity, it appeals to the sinces, taste, touch, smell, and looks. And only has one function and one fate, to reach the toilet or if your old, your pants.

[weldo]

jeeez ....