Web Design Forums

H.Yates · 29-03-2006, 14:23

Is it just me, or are open new window links in websites becoming more prevalent? I just looked at one site, which insisted that every link opened a new window, whilst still surfing within the main site. What's the point?

So that I don't forget the original page?

So that every time I close a every new window I remember them? For what?!

Are designers of these sites trying to make it easy/difficult/'sticky'/confusing/accessible for users?

I saw a relative new user of the 'Net last week baffled by all these windows opening. User friendly or just downright confusing?

Just how many new windows do I need at once? I'm required to close them down, one by one, later. Can I not be credited with the intelligence for being able to work my own way back?

In this era of tabbed browsing... What's going on?

pgo · 29-03-2006, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by H.Yates

What's going on?

Some people just don't care about usability or accessibility.

Some (most?) designers/developers are completely thoughtless and don't care about the people that use their sites.

I think new windows are alright, so long as it's for something like a PDF or similar. And there should be some method of warning the user that a new window will open.

But opening a new window to "keep someone on your site" is stupid. "I know they might want to leave, but I want to force them to stay - even if they don't notice that my site is still open."

H.Yates · 29-03-2006, 15:43

Think you're right PGO. I agree if it's launching an external application it's not a problem, it's when it's just another page within the sight itself when it's an issue. It feels like the designers/owners are trying to force their entire site all over the user without respecting the fact that they may have other apps and browser windows open. It's also a resource hogger, which can't be much fun for those with a slow PC...

pgo · 29-03-2006, 15:54

Big convo going on over at 456 Berea Street about this very subject.

http://www.456bereastreet.com/archiv...g_new_windows/

H.Yates · 29-03-2006, 16:34

Interesting article - thanks for the link PGO. Glad I'm not the only one concerned about this.

datahound · 29-03-2006, 17:08

I disagree.

Eyual · 29-03-2006, 17:31

That is why I like the firefox tabes and the little middle button...

H.Yates · 29-03-2006, 19:14

I like tabbed browsing too, and that's part of the problem perhaps? My real concern is the number of new pages being opened from one single site: it just seems greedy and sloppy. It also feels like it's getting more common. Can anybody find a positive reason for it?

datahound · 29-03-2006, 19:48

Yes, I prefer it. If there is a link here it opens in a new window. I may go off on a tangent for some time but in the end I can close the window and get back to where I started. I prefer it that way. If a link does not open in a new window I will often go back and right click open in new window deliberately so I can explore as a seperate unit. The Google links on here do not open in new window which I find annoying sometimes, I often open them for the sake of curiosity and then have to back-back-back-back-back-back-etc to get back to where I was.

finbarr · 30-03-2006, 03:05

you may be surprised by how few 'day to day surfers (regular people)' use tabbed browsing. IE doesnt come as standard with tabbed browsing does it? How many people are likely to come across an add on and want to install it. Office workers here at my new job usually have 10 - 15 iE windows open at the same time and think nothing of it because thats the way theyve always done it. Theyre also against downloading something that will make their browser act differently to everybody elses?? Thats what youre up against

Stickman · 30-03-2006, 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgo

Some (most?) designers/developers are completely thoughtless and don't care about the people that use their sites.

...opening a new window to "keep someone on your site" is stupid.

Threads on here often go the way of accessibility and browser issues without mentioning clients. If you're doing paid work, its not as simple as this is / isn't stupid. The client is rarely going to want to have links which exit their site at the same time as taking you to another. And if you can't respect that, you'll never make any money creating sites.

Also, like finbarr just said - IE is still king, so tabbed browsing isn't a given.

H.Yates · 30-03-2006, 06:40

Agreed all, good points made.

IE rules the roost for sure, but why can't the user decide for themselves about opening a new window? It's a pretty simple command.

Having watched the aforementioned new user getting bamboozled with windows opening constantly, without warning, and actually getting irate about it, I can't help but wonder if there's a laziness going on here: I'm far from innocent myself, I recently caught myself making links open new windows galore without wondering what the point was (e.g. the user is surely smart enough to navigate around the site and can, if needed, work their way back to it), but it does seem to be getting common currency that hitting a link WITHIN THE MAIN SITE is just opening new windows. If it's a link to an outside site, I don't see the problem. I half suspect it's a paranoid thing - please PLEASE don't leave my precious site..!

Eyual · 30-03-2006, 09:13

I hear your argument H. Yates but your not looking at this from a buissness point of view. The person that owns the site wants you to stay on as long as you want.

No matter what they have to do they want you to stay on. The longer you stay on the better chance their will be that you will buy or do somthing on it.

I remeber countless times when I used IE that I was to lazy to go back to the site because it did not open in a new window. Main reason I switched to FIrefox was because of tabbed browsing I like the combination of having a new window but with out my bar being filled to the brim.

H.Yates · 30-03-2006, 09:36

Those are goods points Eyual.

I agree that from a business point of view it's a valid trick - but what about all the non-business sites employing this technique? Those are the ones that concern me most. Business is business, although as a customer it actually puts me off a site (plenty of the better sites don't constantly open new windows per internal link). I think if there's an answer it's in uniform tabbed browsing, although I don't know if you can set up a link to open a tab yet.

Also remember, we're all pretty tech-savvy here. Those who aren't appear (to me at least) to find the new-window thing overwhelming, especially when it's just for an internal link. And I still believe people are intelligent enough to work out how to get back to the place they originally were. After all, if I'm shopping at a market, I'm quite capable of walking back to the stall I saw earlier. I don't need it to trundle beside me...

pgo · 30-03-2006, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stickman

Threads on here often go the way of accessibility and browser issues without mentioning clients. If you're doing paid work, its not as simple as this is / isn't stupid. The client is rarely going to want to have links which exit their site at the same time as taking you to another. And if you can't respect that, you'll never make any money creating sites.

Very true. I've used target="_blank" on a few sites recently because it's what the client wanted. In that case, I'm fine with it. I was speaking more in principle.

Quote:

IE rules the roost for sure, but why can't the user decide for themselves about opening a new window? It's a pretty simple command.

I'm willing to bet that a good number or a majority of users don't know that.

finbarr · 30-03-2006, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by H.Yates

...And I still believe people are intelligent enough to work out how to get back to the place they originally were.

haha... dont kid yourself young man!

H.Yates · 30-03-2006, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgo

Very true. I've used target="_blank" on a few sites recently because it's what the client wanted. In that case, I'm fine with it. I was speaking more in principle.

Me too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgo

I'm willing to bet that a good number or a majority of users don't know that.

Point taken. That reinforces my thought that some users won't understand why so many new windows are opening without warning them.

H.Yates · 30-03-2006, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by finbarr

haha... dont kid yourself young man!

But we did put a man on the moon missus, honest.

finbarr · 30-03-2006, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by H.Yates

But we did put a man on the moon missus, honest.

yes but the people behind that feat were not what you might term 'normal' people.

Most 'normal' people arent even aware that there's a choice of browsers... let alone options to alter how they work

pgo · 30-03-2006, 11:21

Reminds me of some classics:

"Create a new folder? What are you talking about?"
"De-frag-ment...?"
"Oh, you mean I shouldn't cram my hard drive (case

) between my bed, desk, and wall, and cover it with books?"

29-03-2006, 14:23	#1 (permalink)
H.Yates Looking for money. Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 103	Open new windows - Scourge or Divinity? Is it just me, or are open new window links in websites becoming more prevalent? I just looked at one site, which insisted that every link opened a new window, whilst still surfing within the main site. What's the point? So that I don't forget the original page? So that every time I close a every new window I remember them? For what?! Are designers of these sites trying to make it easy/difficult/'sticky'/confusing/accessible for users? I saw a relative new user of the 'Net last week baffled by all these windows opening. User friendly or just downright confusing? Just how many new windows do I need at once? I'm required to close them down, one by one, later. Can I not be credited with the intelligence for being able to work my own way back? In this era of tabbed browsing... What's going on? Last edited by H.Yates : 29-03-2006 at 14:33.

29-03-2006, 16:34	#5 (permalink)
H.Yates Looking for money. Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 103	Interesting article - thanks for the link PGO. Glad I'm not the only one concerned about this. Last edited by H.Yates : 29-03-2006 at 19:15.

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29-03-2006, 15:43	#3 (permalink)
H.Yates Looking for money. Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 103	Think you're right PGO. I agree if it's launching an external application it's not a problem, it's when it's just another page within the sight itself when it's an issue. It feels like the designers/owners are trying to force their entire site all over the user without respecting the fact that they may have other apps and browser windows open. It's also a resource hogger, which can't be much fun for those with a slow PC...

29-03-2006, 15:54	#4 (permalink)
pgo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,340	Big convo going on over at 456 Berea Street about this very subject. http://www.456bereastreet.com/archiv...g_new_windows/

29-03-2006, 17:08	#6 (permalink)
datahound Spare Parts Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bracknell Forest Posts: 4,979	I disagree.

29-03-2006, 17:31	#7 (permalink)
Eyual Afro Designer Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 83	That is why I like the firefox tabes and the little middle button...

29-03-2006, 19:14	#8 (permalink)
H.Yates Looking for money. Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 103	I like tabbed browsing too, and that's part of the problem perhaps? My real concern is the number of new pages being opened from one single site: it just seems greedy and sloppy. It also feels like it's getting more common. Can anybody find a positive reason for it?

29-03-2006, 19:48	#9 (permalink)
datahound Spare Parts Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bracknell Forest Posts: 4,979	Yes, I prefer it. If there is a link here it opens in a new window. I may go off on a tangent for some time but in the end I can close the window and get back to where I started. I prefer it that way. If a link does not open in a new window I will often go back and right click open in new window deliberately so I can explore as a seperate unit. The Google links on here do not open in new window which I find annoying sometimes, I often open them for the sake of curiosity and then have to back-back-back-back-back-back-etc to get back to where I was.

30-03-2006, 03:05	#10 (permalink)
finbarr who the fuck am i? Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: london Posts: 2,508	you may be surprised by how few 'day to day surfers (regular people)' use tabbed browsing. IE doesnt come as standard with tabbed browsing does it? How many people are likely to come across an add on and want to install it. Office workers here at my new job usually have 10 - 15 iE windows open at the same time and think nothing of it because thats the way theyve always done it. Theyre also against downloading something that will make their browser act differently to everybody elses?? Thats what youre up against

30-03-2006, 06:40	#12 (permalink)
H.Yates Looking for money. Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 103	Agreed all, good points made. IE rules the roost for sure, but why can't the user decide for themselves about opening a new window? It's a pretty simple command. Having watched the aforementioned new user getting bamboozled with windows opening constantly, without warning, and actually getting irate about it, I can't help but wonder if there's a laziness going on here: I'm far from innocent myself, I recently caught myself making links open new windows galore without wondering what the point was (e.g. the user is surely smart enough to navigate around the site and can, if needed, work their way back to it), but it does seem to be getting common currency that hitting a link WITHIN THE MAIN SITE is just opening new windows. If it's a link to an outside site, I don't see the problem. I half suspect it's a paranoid thing - please PLEASE don't leave my precious site..!

30-03-2006, 09:13	#13 (permalink)
Eyual Afro Designer Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 83	I hear your argument H. Yates but your not looking at this from a buissness point of view. The person that owns the site wants you to stay on as long as you want. No matter what they have to do they want you to stay on. The longer you stay on the better chance their will be that you will buy or do somthing on it. I remeber countless times when I used IE that I was to lazy to go back to the site because it did not open in a new window. Main reason I switched to FIrefox was because of tabbed browsing I like the combination of having a new window but with out my bar being filled to the brim.

30-03-2006, 09:36	#14 (permalink)
H.Yates Looking for money. Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 103	Those are goods points Eyual. I agree that from a business point of view it's a valid trick - but what about all the non-business sites employing this technique? Those are the ones that concern me most. Business is business, although as a customer it actually puts me off a site (plenty of the better sites don't constantly open new windows per internal link). I think if there's an answer it's in uniform tabbed browsing, although I don't know if you can set up a link to open a tab yet. Also remember, we're all pretty tech-savvy here. Those who aren't appear (to me at least) to find the new-window thing overwhelming, especially when it's just for an internal link. And I still believe people are intelligent enough to work out how to get back to the place they originally were. After all, if I'm shopping at a market, I'm quite capable of walking back to the stall I saw earlier. I don't need it to trundle beside me...

30-03-2006, 11:21	#20 (permalink)
pgo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,340	Reminds me of some classics: "Create a new folder? What are you talking about?" "De-frag-ment...?" "Oh, you mean I shouldn't cram my hard drive (case ) between my bed, desk, and wall, and cover it with books?"

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