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pgo · 04-09-2005, 08:56

I read a lot of stuff in the "web standards community". And every time accessibility is brought up, it seems, it's always "well some screen readers do this, some screen readers...screen readers...screen readers...".

I'm all for a web that's accessible to everyone, but constantly harping on screen readers makes my head spin. Are there really that many people using them? The way people harp on them, you'd think that there was some huge segment of the web browsing public using them. Is it the only justification people can find for anything? Feels kind of weak to me.

Note: I'm not saying don't build accessible sites, of course.

gray · 04-09-2005, 09:28

there arent loads, but if a less abled person tries to access a site and can't, they can sue for discrimination. like shops that have to have ramps etc, they might see 1 wheelchair person per year, but they have to comply

see how pc i am?

gray · 04-09-2005, 09:29

plus how else can we get people to redisgn than to scare them with a bit of legal action? haha

pgo · 04-09-2005, 09:30

I absolutely understand (don't think they can sue in the US, though - [sarcasm]we don't laike thems types 'round here[/sarcasm]). I'm just saying it's constantly beaten into our heads - it comes off as sounding like an excuse more than a practicality.

riat_sila · 04-09-2005, 19:57

As gray said, it's really just a bargaining chip for us to 'convince' prospective employers to switch to a standards-based layout. The easiest way is just to make a screen-reader stylesheet, that just renders text be done with it (if you're lazy).

I don't know if there's legislation in the US, but technically you can be sued shut down in the UK due to the DDA.

Brown · 05-09-2005, 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by riat_sila

but technically you can be sued shut down in the UK due to the DDA.

technically yes, the wording of the law is too ambiguous to generate a court case as it stands and it doesn't apply to all websites. it applies to services. unfortunately, the law doesn't define exactly what a 'service' is.

however, anyone wanting to offer any sort of service would be stupid to shy away from web standards and the basics of accesibilty as it not only opens your information to the partially sighted, blind etc but to any web surfing device.

cam · 05-09-2005, 07:08

the amount of people that seem to think webstandards are synonymous with getting a site usable in a screenreader is staggering. the best way to think about it is that the information or service available on a site should be available to the user no matter what device they're using to access it.

i'm not saying that this type of standardisation is particularly easy (or in some cases, possible) but it's something we should try and strive for

Brown · 05-09-2005, 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by gray

but if a less abled person tries to access a site and can't, they can sue for discrimination.

no they can't. they could sue hsbc or tesco for providing a service that is not accessible to all in the same way that their stores are. saying that, if someone was to take tesco to court over it, tesco could probably win the case by saying - so what our e-com site doesn't work for you, go use the physical shop like everyone else.

there is no case for anyone to sue me, saying that they can't read the content of my site. its my site and i can do what i want with it. in the same way, i could have a big step to get into my house to keep wheelchairs out. (not that i would of course).

pgo · 05-09-2005, 07:12

I agree with you Brown and cam, absolutely.

I was merely complaining that you hear so damn much about screen readers in the web standards community. They're the justification for so much. I've never read an accessibility article that doesn't mention screen readers!

Not that we shouldn't pay attention to them.

Brown · 05-09-2005, 07:16

screen readers get all the attention b'cos they are the most obvious alternative output device. saying that, there's not too many others that i can think of apart from braille printers and lets face it (if you can - its over that way, no, to your left), i imagine there's not many of them about.

04-09-2005, 08:56	#1 (permalink)
pgo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,340	Accessibility and Screen Readers I read a lot of stuff in the "web standards community". And every time accessibility is brought up, it seems, it's always "well some screen readers do this, some screen readers...screen readers...screen readers...". I'm all for a web that's accessible to everyone, but constantly harping on screen readers makes my head spin. Are there really that many people using them? The way people harp on them, you'd think that there was some huge segment of the web browsing public using them. Is it the only justification people can find for anything? Feels kind of weak to me. Note: I'm not saying don't build accessible sites, of course.

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04-09-2005, 09:28	#2 (permalink)
gray i still want paying Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: newcastle, uk Posts: 4,836	there arent loads, but if a less abled person tries to access a site and can't, they can sue for discrimination. like shops that have to have ramps etc, they might see 1 wheelchair person per year, but they have to comply see how pc i am?

04-09-2005, 09:29	#3 (permalink)
gray i still want paying Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: newcastle, uk Posts: 4,836	plus how else can we get people to redisgn than to scare them with a bit of legal action? haha

04-09-2005, 09:30	#4 (permalink)
pgo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,340	I absolutely understand (don't think they can sue in the US, though - [sarcasm]we don't laike thems types 'round here[/sarcasm]). I'm just saying it's constantly beaten into our heads - it comes off as sounding like an excuse more than a practicality.

04-09-2005, 19:57	#5 (permalink)
riat_sila Design on ice Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bracknell, UK Posts: 167	As gray said, it's really just a bargaining chip for us to 'convince' prospective employers to switch to a standards-based layout. The easiest way is just to make a screen-reader stylesheet, that just renders text be done with it (if you're lazy). I don't know if there's legislation in the US, but technically you can be sued shut down in the UK due to the DDA.

05-09-2005, 07:08	#7 (permalink)
cam vague™ Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Glasgow Posts: 5,590	the amount of people that seem to think webstandards are synonymous with getting a site usable in a screenreader is staggering. the best way to think about it is that the information or service available on a site should be available to the user no matter what device they're using to access it. i'm not saying that this type of standardisation is particularly easy (or in some cases, possible) but it's something we should try and strive for

05-09-2005, 07:12	#9 (permalink)
pgo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,340	I agree with you Brown and cam, absolutely. I was merely complaining that you hear so damn much about screen readers in the web standards community. They're the justification for so much. I've never read an accessibility article that doesn't mention screen readers! Not that we shouldn't pay attention to them.

05-09-2005, 07:16	#10 (permalink)
Brown volkswagen yellow & gold Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: london, england. Posts: 6,147	screen readers get all the attention b'cos they are the most obvious alternative output device. saying that, there's not too many others that i can think of apart from braille printers and lets face it (if you can - its over that way, no, to your left), i imagine there's not many of them about.

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