[D856C]

Hype about Web 2.0 is making web firms neglect the basics of good design, web usability guru Jakob Nielsen has said.

Web: 2, Users: 0

Most arguments about Web 2.0 relevance is about social dimensions: which usually means users. Of course, that means usability counts for more -- not less.

Autistic Social Software is a rather stunning indictment. "Why on earth should we encourage people to perform a mental disorder in the digital world?? We do so because we've built technology that does not take into consideration the subtle nuances of the identity faceting with which people are already accustomed. As geeks, we were trained to separate policy and mechanism through systems courses. We rely on people to figure out the policies, not realizing that we've framed what is possible through our technology."

We've hardwired autistic, attention-deficient behaviors into technology. Then labeled them as the exact opposite of what they are: Classic Marketing hype.

[Agricola]

Originally Posted by D856C

Hype about Web 2.0 is making web firms neglect the basics of good design, web usability guru Jakob Nielsen has said.

I agree with that statement. Web2.0 is the new holy grail of web design, everyone wants a part of it. IT is like the FLASH Rush a few years back, Everyone who was anyone HAD to have a Flash Website regardless of how it looked and performed, they just had to have it because it was hyped up by Macromedia and Flash designers.


Guess who coined the phrase Web 2.0 O'Reilly Media. Most of us who are serious about coding etc, most likely have at least one pocket reference book made by O'Reilly, they also have a lot of fingers in physical web design, so of course its in their interest to generate a new craze and hype that will have all the major businesses falling over each other to include so called Web2.0 features for their online presence, this in turn means new standards and methods of coding, which means more developers , designers and coders etc will be falling over themselves to be part of the new Gold Rush and in turn will buy some useful guides and reference books from.. O'reilly.


At end of day the web will not die if only a handful of organizations etc turn to Web2.0 WHen it comes to business the vast majority of visitors to an ecommerce site will still want to find their product and purchase it with little time as possible. By bloating a webpage out filled with Web2.0 bells and whistles will simply turn customers away, there is already a report out that goes into great detail about webrage, how people are getting too stressed and angry because webpages do not load quick enough of function how the visitor would like.

Anyways time will tell, when Web 2.0 is done and dusted something new will come along to encourage the hype, virtual 3D USB Glasses/headgear maybe, surf the web in 3d, walk through virtual malls and watch 3d porn shows.

[weldo]

Originally Posted by Agricola

... and watch 3d porn shows.

Amen.

and roll on !!!

[paulanthony]

Originally Posted by Agricola

Guess who coined the phrase Web 2.0 O'Reilly Media. Most of us who are serious about coding etc, most likely have at least one pocket reference book made by O'Reilly, they also have a lot of fingers in physical web design, so of course its in their interest to generate a new craze and hype that will have all the major businesses falling over each other to include so called Web2.0 features for their online presence, this in turn means new standards and methods of coding, which means more developers , designers and coders etc will be falling over themselves to be part of the new Gold Rush and in turn will buy some useful guides and reference books from.. O'reilly.

If they hadn't coined it someone else would. Im sure everyone here feels that the web now is a hell of alot different than it was during dotcom boom. I think its fair to give (*some) of the concepts and ideas people are bringing to the web a term which sets them apart from the norm, and if web 2.0 is that term so be it. Yes there is hype. But did anyone ever listen to Jacob. If we all did the web would be about as entertaining as nose diving into a deep fat fryer.

[Blue Ire]

Originally Posted by paulanthony

If we all did the web would be about as entertaining as nose diving into a deep fat fryer.

Are you telling me you wouldn't pay money to watch some dude dive into a deep fryer? I sure would.

[Agricola]

Originally Posted by paulanthony

If they hadn't coined it someone else would. Im sure everyone here feels that the web now is a hell of alot different than it was during dotcom boom. I think its fair to give (*some) of the concepts and ideas people are bringing to the web a term which sets them apart from the norm, and if web 2.0 is that term so be it. Yes there is hype. But did anyone ever listen to Jacob. If we all did the web would be about as entertaining as nose diving into a deep fat fryer.

Yeah can imagine Jakob sitting in his rocking chair mumbling away about how things were different in his days, new fangled technology, how he remembers all you had was a page of plain text and that’s how it should be.

Certainly just about everything likes of Jakob rant on about are perfectly correct and true if you are involved in likes of ecommerce or providing information, however we all know that entertainment industry is huge and within that section we can be a bit more liberal and forward thinking, Jakob tends to assume everyone should be the same, again true to some extent, as even if you had say a community entertainment site you still need to be careful as to how much new fangled technology and gimmicks you offer and how you incorporate and present it or you will end up with a car wreck and people thinking WTF is this about.


Take Amazon for example, Amazon works, if it aint broke don’t fix it, so no matter how tempting it is to add certain features and new technology there is no need, as it works, adding new elements in the equation is simply one more thing to go wrong, people wont use these things either, they just buy their must have item and pay for it ASAP. Many people are still computer illiterate and barely able to purchase an item let alone use interactive and personalized Web2.0 gimmicks.

[Snowshiro]

Nielsen makes good points at times, but he also has a very narrow view of what constitutes good design. His entire thought process is based on functional design, with absolutely no attention to aesthetics.

Useit.com is a perfect example of a Nielsen's wet dream (sorry I can't hyperlink it because the forum says I haven't posted for long enough.)

Is it clear - yes
Easy to read - yes
Easy to use - yes
Mind numbingly bland - Abso-bloody-lutely

If Nielsen had his way, buildings would be designed with doors that had "THIS IS A DOOR" written on them in large type in case any poor soul couldn't figure out how to use the exit. He credits web users with the mental processing capacity of a garden snail.

The point is, there has to be a balance between usability and aesthetics, otherwise we're all out of a job. You could program a computer to design the kinds of sites he likes. A design which makes it difficult for the average person to navigate a site, is detrimental to its overall effectiveness. But most graphic designers are smart enough to know when they've stepped over the line from a usable design into something that is going to confuse the site's visitors.

Nielsen will keep on moaning, and that's a good thing because it keeps us all in check, but his extreme philosophy is no more applicable to reality than a graphic designer who thinks white on white is a good color scheme.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Snowshiro

Nielsen makes good points at times, but he also has a very narrow view of what constitutes good design. His entire thought process is based on functional design, with absolutely no attention to aesthetics.

Useit.com is a perfect example of a Nielsen's wet dream (sorry I can't hyperlink it because the forum says I haven't posted for long enough.)

Is it clear - yes
Easy to read - yes
Easy to use - yes
Mind numbingly bland - Abso-bloody-lutely

If Nielsen had his way, buildings would be designed with doors that had "THIS IS A DOOR" written on them in large type in case any poor soul couldn't figure out how to use the exit. He credits web users with the mental processing capacity of a garden snail.

The point is, there has to be a balance between usability and aesthetics, otherwise we're all out of a job. You could program a computer to design the kinds of sites he likes. A design which makes it difficult for the average person to navigate a site, is detrimental to its overall effectiveness. But most graphic designers are smart enough to know when they've stepped over the line from a usable design into something that is going to confuse the site's visitors.

Nielsen will keep on moaning, and that's a good thing because it keeps us all in check, but his extreme philosophy is no more applicable to reality than a graphic designer who thinks white on white is a good color scheme.

What a great follow up reply!
Rep++