Web Design Forums

bluesage · 15-01-2007, 12:21

Hi,

I not a javascript fan, but some nice effects can be achieved using it. Personally I dont have anything against the actual language and its effects but the fact that its client side and certain users deactivate its support, and some browsers dont support it, so content sometimes gets lost and pages dont do anything.

I only use it to enhance the page, but make sure those without will still have all the data on their screen.

Now with all the talk about AJAX, wanted to have some opinions from those who are javascript fans, and those who arent

, just designers and webdevelopers opinions on the matter.

I considering getting into javascript and xml (so AJAX) to design nice sites, but as I've stated im a bit skeptical about Javascript.

funkyprem · 15-01-2007, 12:28

nope. CIF all the way mate.

dtrenz · 15-01-2007, 12:29

don't do AJAX for the sake of doing AJAX. only use it if it's called for. it can be a welcome alternative to Flash, and there are many different implementations. try to make pages that degrade gracefully (e.g. if a user has JS disabled, your site still functions, just not as flashy).

bluesage · 15-01-2007, 12:31

whats CIF ? and as for graceful degrading, Im all for that, but not sure if its worth spending time learning AJAX fully just to have a more "flashy" website

dtrenz · 15-01-2007, 12:34

like i said, if you don't need it, i wouldn't bother. if asynchronous page loading is something that would greatly benefit your site, go for it. if not, i'd pass.

sounds like you don't need it.

Dusteh · 16-01-2007, 03:47

theres more to ajax than just 'flashy bits'.

d*d · 16-01-2007, 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesage

whats CIF ?

I think it was a bad joke

funkyprem · 16-01-2007, 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by d*d

I think it was a bad joke

you think right

d*d · 16-01-2007, 04:59

I did do a search for the 'CIF' acronym before cursing your name though

funkyprem · 16-01-2007, 05:20

It is an acronym, but it wasn't the acronym I was referring to...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cif

Larixk · 16-01-2007, 05:33

bluesage · 16-01-2007, 07:30

Dusteh, could elaborate a bit on your comment

Quote:

theres more to ajax than just 'flashy bits'.

thanks

BasicMind · 17-01-2007, 09:24

Indeed there is alot more to ajax that just display bits. You can update parts of your page without having to reload the entire page. Or indeed update something on your server without having to make a fresh request. this means less stress/bandwidth on your server. And if you done the backend right it can be backwards compatible with none ajaxy browsers.

dtrenz · 17-01-2007, 09:40

yes, but you have to take into consideration that unless you've put a lot of clever JS together to protect against it, you will probably lose the functionality of the "Back" button/bookmarks/browser history.

this means less page views, in the traditional sense.

i think AJAX is cool, but if you're doing it just to do it, you probably should avoid it.

by "flashy" i meant dynamic content, without a page load. this can be cool and also annoying.

BasicMind · 17-01-2007, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtrenz

by "flashy" i meant dynamic content, without a page load. this can be cool and also annoying.

indeed. I get rattled with over use of ajax.

eterry28 · 20-01-2007, 21:38

good talk here...

So what do we do or what mindset do we need to be in when we say things like Web Applications taking the place of desktop apps?

Are end users starting to expect the web to be more like the desktop?

I think that we will have to move towards the ajax model. It will become the new standard.

astheria · 20-01-2007, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by eterry28

good talk here...

So what do we do or what mindset do we need to be in when we say things like Web Applications taking the place of desktop apps?

Are end users starting to expect the web to be more like the desktop?

I think that we will have to move towards the ajax model. It will become the new standard.

I really doubt end users expect desktop-like functionality. People still use MySpace, that's enough evidence right there. I don't believe in AJAX for a usability sake, for reasons that were aforementioned. Maybe in days were we don't have to code for IE, all browsers are compliant and updated regularly, then, maybe, yes.

BatteryLow · 22-01-2007, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by d*d

I think it was a bad joke

agreed. bad joke.

BatteryLow · 22-01-2007, 11:57

Personally I don't think AJAX is about providing the user with desktop functionality. Not that specific anyways. But it is about making the experience more customized with every user and thusly providing a more friendly user experience. From what I've seen, AJAX is a great advancement in the web browsing arena.

I also agree, don't just use it to use it. Make sure you have a necessity for it.

freelancr · 22-01-2007, 12:23

not sure if anyone has ever installed an opensource forum called Vanilla (http://www.getvanilla.com) but some of the forum settings that have checkboxes save (using ajax to get php to query mysql) when you click them not sure if it degrades gracefully though.

now thats pretty neat!

Here's a question that clearly doesnt belong on an design forum, but ill ask it anyway. Since the page doesn't have to refresh, does this mean load is likely to increase greatly for the database server, thus if you have a very busy, very ajax website, will it be slower than if you just did it the old fashioned way? Because of the larger amount of queries?

But then again, it could be more efficient, as any client action is only requesting data for just the parts that need it instead of the whole page again, and also is not putting load onto the webserver.

Hmmmm

15-01-2007, 12:21	#1 (permalink)
bluesage Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Switzerland Posts: 356	AJAX - worth it ? opinions Hi, I not a javascript fan, but some nice effects can be achieved using it. Personally I dont have anything against the actual language and its effects but the fact that its client side and certain users deactivate its support, and some browsers dont support it, so content sometimes gets lost and pages dont do anything. I only use it to enhance the page, but make sure those without will still have all the data on their screen. Now with all the talk about AJAX, wanted to have some opinions from those who are javascript fans, and those who arent , just designers and webdevelopers opinions on the matter. I considering getting into javascript and xml (so AJAX) to design nice sites, but as I've stated im a bit skeptical about Javascript.

15-01-2007, 12:28	#2 (permalink)
funkyprem For all your goober needs Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Coventry, UK Posts: 1,531	nope. CIF all the way mate. __________________ Time is really the only capital that any human being has, and the one thing that he can’t afford to lose. - Thomas Edison prem ghinde

16-01-2007, 03:47	#6 (permalink)
Dusteh Sir digby chicken caesar Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 4,887	theres more to ajax than just 'flashy bits'. __________________ unconsolidated isoparms

16-01-2007, 05:20	#10 (permalink)
funkyprem For all your goober needs Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Coventry, UK Posts: 1,531	It is an acronym, but it wasn't the acronym I was referring to... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cif __________________ Time is really the only capital that any human being has, and the one thing that he can’t afford to lose. - Thomas Edison prem ghinde

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15-01-2007, 12:29	#3 (permalink)
dtrenz blam blam Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ann arbor, mi usa Posts: 527	don't do AJAX for the sake of doing AJAX. only use it if it's called for. it can be a welcome alternative to Flash, and there are many different implementations. try to make pages that degrade gracefully (e.g. if a user has JS disabled, your site still functions, just not as flashy).

15-01-2007, 12:31	#4 (permalink)
bluesage Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Switzerland Posts: 356	whats CIF ? and as for graceful degrading, Im all for that, but not sure if its worth spending time learning AJAX fully just to have a more "flashy" website

15-01-2007, 12:34	#5 (permalink)
dtrenz blam blam Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ann arbor, mi usa Posts: 527	like i said, if you don't need it, i wouldn't bother. if asynchronous page loading is something that would greatly benefit your site, go for it. if not, i'd pass. sounds like you don't need it.

16-01-2007, 04:59	#9 (permalink)
d*d Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bristol Posts: 3,305	I did do a search for the 'CIF' acronym before cursing your name though

16-01-2007, 05:33	#11 (permalink)
Larixk Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Utrecht, Netherlands Posts: 1,031	?

17-01-2007, 09:24	#13 (permalink)
BasicMind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 196	Indeed there is alot more to ajax that just display bits. You can update parts of your page without having to reload the entire page. Or indeed update something on your server without having to make a fresh request. this means less stress/bandwidth on your server. And if you done the backend right it can be backwards compatible with none ajaxy browsers.

17-01-2007, 09:40	#14 (permalink)
dtrenz blam blam Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ann arbor, mi usa Posts: 527	yes, but you have to take into consideration that unless you've put a lot of clever JS together to protect against it, you will probably lose the functionality of the "Back" button/bookmarks/browser history. this means less page views, in the traditional sense. i think AJAX is cool, but if you're doing it just to do it, you probably should avoid it. by "flashy" i meant dynamic content, without a page load. this can be cool and also annoying.

20-01-2007, 21:38	#16 (permalink)
eterry28 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3	good talk here... So what do we do or what mindset do we need to be in when we say things like Web Applications taking the place of desktop apps? Are end users starting to expect the web to be more like the desktop? I think that we will have to move towards the ajax model. It will become the new standard.

22-01-2007, 11:57	#19 (permalink)
BatteryLow Rice Cooker Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 62	Personally I don't think AJAX is about providing the user with desktop functionality. Not that specific anyways. But it is about making the experience more customized with every user and thusly providing a more friendly user experience. From what I've seen, AJAX is a great advancement in the web browsing arena. I also agree, don't just use it to use it. Make sure you have a necessity for it.

22-01-2007, 12:23	#20 (permalink)
freelancr Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,195	not sure if anyone has ever installed an opensource forum called Vanilla (http://www.getvanilla.com) but some of the forum settings that have checkboxes save (using ajax to get php to query mysql) when you click them not sure if it degrades gracefully though. now thats pretty neat! Here's a question that clearly doesnt belong on an design forum, but ill ask it anyway. Since the page doesn't have to refresh, does this mean load is likely to increase greatly for the database server, thus if you have a very busy, very ajax website, will it be slower than if you just did it the old fashioned way? Because of the larger amount of queries? But then again, it could be more efficient, as any client action is only requesting data for just the parts that need it instead of the whole page again, and also is not putting load onto the webserver. Hmmmm

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