[font=Arial][color=Black]Could people please tell me what they think of this:

www.hildrednet.co.uk/bsrc

Compared to the old version, of this:

www.bostonsquashclub.co.uk

I'm gonna point that domian to the newer version soon, and possibly make improvements to the newer first.

Obviously, although it'll help if you do, please don't just compa4re them, but crtisise and praise () what you think are the and bad bits.

Thanks.

[Narate]

first off tables, prepare to be flamed about them.

second off on my res 1280 x ... I have a HUGE white space

The alligning is bad.

The colour scheme is worse.

[noggin]

the logo & title should be saved as a gif rather than a jpg. There are pretty basic reasons for this which can be found in any introductory book to web graphics

it's really bad I'm afraid

[ionicwings]

uhm green again X_x

ye, I rtake our points about the higher screen resolution, and how that looks bad, I did it like that so it's fit into 800x600, seeing as about 40% surf the web with 800 apparently. Would it help if I placed it all in a table with 1 cell, and aligned the tabele in the centre of the page? Then I'd add a (hopefully) subtle background colour?

The reasonm it was actually a jpeg, was because I was having to swap between Paint and PhotoImpact for stuff on the pageheader, so I was saving as jpeg, as p[aint saving as a gi... *Shivers*. I'll save it as a gif now though.

I don't know how to arrange a layout any pother way the tables tough, so sorry about that...

I think we can all agree it's better than my previous effort though!

[cam]

Originally Posted by Adam

I don't know how to arrange a layout any pother way the tables tough, so sorry about that...

Using CSS, here's some links to get you started:

http://wendypeck.com/css101.html
http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/stylesheets/
http://www.westciv.com/style_master/...ial/index.html
http://www.dezwozhere.com/links.html


Before doing that though, i'd spend some time looking at sites such as:

http://www.misspato.com/links/index.php
http://www.cssbeauty.com/
http://www.csszengarden.com/

Not just for the way the featured sites/designs have been implemented, but for the design considerations as well - the way the text is layed out, the colour scheme used, etc, etc.

[smallbeer]

Originally Posted by ionicwings

uhm green again X_x

unless you're ever going to actually say anything useful or constructive, would you mind keeping quiet or fucking off.

cheers.

[Narate]

Youch!

[Narate]

Paint and PhotoImpact

Try learning something a little more effective.

Paintshop Graphics programs (trial)
http://www.jasc.com/products/paintshoppro/?
Microsoft Expression
http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/

Im sure there will be people willing to share other free apps that may be more suited to what you're doing.

[strawbleu]

Go with the css stuff - if nothing else, the page would load a lot faster having the text as text and not grpahics (for which there's no benefit as you've used system fonts)

One day, all children will read 'Designing with Web Standards..'

I've had a trial of PSP before, and I liked it. I've also seen the GIMP, but didn't relly like it. Microsoft Expression basically seems to be spelling out he end of all other companies relieing on a grahpics program for income then...

Thanks for the tips about CSS layouts I'll have a look at them.

I've updated the way in which it'll look in a high screenb res (I use 1024x768 myself). The site is centred, and there is a background, so that you hopefully don't die of too much white...

Please tewll me if you think that makes it ay better.

[dorian]

put some padding in your content cell. try 10px or something.
the menu does not have to be an image. could be normal text links.
really - invest in a book.

[noggin]

Like dorian says, there's no real reason for you to use images for that menu.

Here's an example - add the following rule to your stylesheet:

#navigation a {
	display:block;
	padding-left:5px;
	
        font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
        font-size:1.8em;
        color:#000000;
        text-decoration:none;
        
        border-bottom:1px solid #000000;
        background-color:#009865;  
}  

Now in your html page get rid of the image map you're currently using and replace it with regular html links:

    <td width="175" align="left" valign="top" bgcolor="#009865">
	<!-- OLD MENU!
	<img src="images/menu.gif" width="150" 
	height="300" border="0" usemap="#Map">
	-->
	<div id="navigation">
		<a href="index.html">Home</a>
		<a href="forum.html">Forum</a>
		<a href="history.html">History</a>
		<a href="honours.html">Honours</a>
		<a href="joining.html">Joining</a>
		<a href="news.html">News</a>
		<a href="newsletter.html">Newsletter</a>
		<a href="contact.html">Contact</a>
		<a href="leagues.html">Leagues</a>
		<a href="juniors.html">Juniors</a>
	</div>
</td>

Now have a look at the page in your browser - doesn't look any worse does it?!
And the best bit is this - add the following rule to your stylesheet:

#navigation a:hover {
	background-color:#ffffff;
	color:#009865;
} 

and you instantly have rollovers...

There's still a way for you to go, but this is hopefully a little taster of the joys of css

dAN

[Joewebber]

Think the colour scheme looks terrible. Maybe ditch the grey and centre the colour scheme around green, but maybe a softer green. The logo looks a little out of place, it might look better directly above the menu, its also a little blurry. I think the default table borders are visually offensive

[noggin]

maybe default table borders are due a revival?

re: bluriness - saving the logo as gif rather than jpeg should help

...unless you're just opening the jpg & saving it as a gif, in which case, it'll look even worse

dAN

[lucidcreations]

Originally Posted by Adam

I've had a trial of PSP before, and I liked it. I've also seen the GIMP, but didn't relly like it. Microsoft Expression basically seems to be spelling out he end of all other companies relieing on a grahpics program for income then...

I don't think Adobe would agree. Photoshop forever my friend.

[andycogbill]

Some very good points above. Any designer -- veteran or newcomer -- could make a pretty good checklist out of some of these posts.

As most of the coding and standards issues have been mentioned, I think the design could use some change as well.

As of now things look very run-of-the-mill. Firstly, it looks dated. A dated look can severely cut hits, as a visitor will arrive at the site, say to themselves "Hmm, this must not have been updated in a while" and hit their back button. Some of the links above could help you get a feel for what is "cutting edge".

The graphics could use a makeover; probably just changing them to .gifs won't do it, as you have apparently just taken the original, smaller squash court graphic and blown it up. Very naughty. Use Illustrator or some other vector graphics program to trace it, then make it bigger and export it as a .gif. Much prettier.

The color scheme could use an update. Check this site out for inspiration:

http://www.adampolselli.com/colorschemes/

Bottom line, just have a seat sometime and really plan the site out, before you start coding.

Good luck!

OK< I've now added the CSS that you showed me, and saved the page head as a GIF, which quartered the images size!

Thanks for the tips, I like the site a lot more now, especially the CSS rollovers, and the page header is less blury. Luckily I keep all my UFOs, the objects file photoimaoct saves as, so I can easi;y save as a gif. And for dial up users they'll be less likely to go off the page now, as the load times will be a hec of a loot faster!

i guess making the logo bigger again will be somewthing I getg round to, as yes, I did just blow it up originally. The logo which I blew it up from was actually one I had basically re made, as the original I had was just scanned in, and thje lines were none excistant, etc, etc, excetera.