[Webstar]

the target audience aren't going to know or even CARE that stock photographs and premade icons are being used.

you get defensive about everything. did i once say anything about your comments? no. and in my honest opinion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the usability of the site. it's easy to look at and easy to navigate.

[teapoted]

I hate it when they use stock photos with girls that "look good, but there's something strange about them so they seem accessible," but since it's a picture on a website, just use a pornstar, not gona bang em anyway.

[Maerk]

Originally Posted by Webstar

the target audience aren't going to know or even CARE that stock photographs and premade icons are being used.

This just seems irresponsible reasoning to me, most clients aren't going to know the difference that dodgy stock imagery is being used, or frankly care if you start recommending using comic sans for their brand. Either. They come to you for a professional service offering skills that they don't have, and he then came here for input from fellow designers, and we now seem to be rationalising away bothering to do a great design when a generic mediocre one will do.

Why bother doing good work for clients at all when substandard will do for most?

Why bother standing above the rest when standing with the masses is as brilliant.

Originally Posted by Webstar

you get defensive about everything. did i once say anything about your comments? no. and in my honest opinion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the usability of the site. it's easy to look at and easy to navigate.

Believe me I wish I didn't find myself publicly disagreeing with you so often, but I didn't take it as a personal gripe against me I merely shared the sentiment of the others, so I responded? Am I meant to apologise every time I publicly disagree with you?

As I said earlier, the site looks well crafted and is easy to navigate. It's just lacklustre and could be better. Simple as...

But why bother apparently.

[bazzle]

Originally Posted by Maerk

Crazy designs?

Most good agencies sites are not "crazy" once upon a time certainly, and a select few certainly are. I think you underestimate the target audience (or maybe I have an optimistic take on things), but it's certainly a safe design, just unfortunately I think safe to the point of generic. But you've said you agree about icons and things so hopefully it'll at least go a few notches in the right direction.

@Webstar - edit - can't be bothered saying all I did. Find one person in this thread who actually expects that. I just don't expect clip art/stock photos when declaring originality.

I know exactly where you are coming from, but I don't see anything wrong with using elements which are deemed as being generic. I think often we (as designers) are too fussy about what we see as good and bad design that we forget what our target audience is likely to think.

With this case, I think the designer made a good choice of using a stock image of a hot secretary/designer whatever because it is likely to reassure the visitor that the company is made up of young and dynamic people with fresh ideas. no matter how generic it is, it still works.

[Webstar]

Originally Posted by Maerk

This just seems irresponsible reasoning to me, most clients aren't going to know the difference that dodgy stock imagery is being used, or frankly care if you start recommending using comic sans for their brand. Either. They come to you for a professional service offering skills that they don't have, and he then came here for input from fellow designers, and we now seem to be rationalising away bothering to do a great design when a generic mediocre one will do.

Yes, that's how it should be, but experience dictates, that it isn't.

Originally Posted by Maerk

Believe me I wish I didn't find myself publicly disagreeing with you so often, but I didn't take it as a personal gripe against me I merely shared the sentiment of the others, so I responded? Am I meant to apologise every time I publicly disagree with you?

Well yes, you do appear to get off on disagreeing with most people but I expect you to at least avoid saying things like:

Originally Posted by Maerk

which seems to be how you and webstar have taken my thoughts on the above design

when I clearly hadn't said anything about you or discredited your opinions. This is what makes me think you go looking for reactions. Well done, you got one. Now you can apologise for even getting me involved in this and perhaps go see a specialist. Unless you tell me that you misread my post or made an honest mistake, you have issues.

[teapoted]

Settle down now kids.

[Sean McP]

It seems to me that this website is being posted purely for appraisal and not for criticism. I don't mean it in a harsh way, but it doesn't seem that, based on your responses, you're going to make any changes to the website from what we've all said here.

I think it looks alright. Definitely on the better side of alright, but still...it's alright. If I were searching the net and I stumbled upon your site, I would take it seriously. But, as other have mentioned, it is forgettable.

It would be nice to see some elements to make it pop, make it memorable, but it doesn't seem like we're going to get any of that.

It looks alright, and it does its job, I guess that's all you need from us.

[2Dfruit]

Fuck sake ladies, you're entertaining.

[Webstar]

Originally Posted by 2Dfruit

Fuck sake ladies, you're entertaining.

is it weird that a read all of your posts in an irish accent? it might be weird because it's more of a northern irish accent.

[2Dfruit]

Originally Posted by Webstar

is it weird that a read all of your posts in an irish accent? it might be weird because it's more of a northern irish accent.

not far wrong man. I live just under the border.

[Maerk]

Yes fair cop, I made it sound like you were having a go at my view personally, clearly that's not the case, I was just taking on the viewpoint of the royal we. You seemed to think that all those who weren't satisfied with his design had some ridiculous expectation of some ostentatious flash and hard to use design, when no one here has suggested that in any way shape of form.

All I'm banging on about is wanting to better something, I don't waste my time on designs I see no merit in at all, I simply think this could be a lot stronger than it is, and don't believe in the mentality of "oh that'll do".

[bazzle]

Well in all honestly, the first thing I noticed about your reply Maerk (and others) is the fact that you were too quick to point out the fact that it has generic elements, and went on about how forgettable it is.

You only made a small comment about it being well crafted, but I think that is the whole selling point of this site. The subtle elements are extremely well designed, and the presentation is top notch.

This enforces what I mean, this agency prides itself on pure attention to detail: Kyan | Creative website design and web development agency based near Guildford, Surrey, UK

I'm not poking at you at all Maerk, you give your opinions more than anyone else on this forum, I really respect what you say, and agree with you most of the time. Just think you and some others aren't giving this guy the credit he deserves.

[DKuntz2]

sorry for not replying, I thought I did, but it didn't get through or something...

Anyways, my big thing on you reposting mt's content was that it's not something you should do. It's essentially stealing their rank on google, for your own. You put in instructions on how to do it, (well links to theirs) google sees that, you get a higher rank where you shouldn't.
Just because people keep asking doesn't mean you should publish it to your blog, you should directly link them over to MT's site, by email, not by saying "see my site".

the first comment on your portfolio sites looking like your site; they do. The first to sites in your portfolio look the same as your own personal site you're having us review. It gave me the impression that you're just a color editor, you don't change designs.

[Maerk]

Originally Posted by bazzle

Well in all honestly, the first thing I noticed about your reply Maerk (and others) is the fact that you were too quick to point out the fact that it has generic elements, and went on about how forgettable it is.

You only made a small comment about it being well crafted, but I think that is the whole selling point of this site. The subtle elements are extremely well designed, and the presentation is top notch.

Because he asked for C&C, not for me to sit praising it, it's a waste of my time. We're blunt and we dive straight in to help quickly, or not at all.

It may seem like I spend very little time saying something is nice, and more time suggesting fixes, because well that's true.

Not about to deny it.

I say very little in threads where the design is actually great because there's nothing I feel I can add to it, and I say very little or nothing at all in threads where the design is beyond saving unless they need a bit of a wake up call.

In threads like this, I very swiftly sum up what works, and then dive straight into trying to offer advice on what could improve it. Because that's simply how I approach this section on the site. Regardless of whether I'm harsh, or fuzzy and molly coddling, I generally am trying to get someone to produce stronger design. Isn't like I'd post so much if I was just feeling like ripping someone apart.


And I don't get why you just posted Kyan? I think that's a great example of a non forgettable, non generic but very clean crisp well designed site. Everything I've been pushing for infact.

It's not ground breaking, but it's a darn site more impressive than the Collective Core site as it stands currently, and with a much stronger attention to detail and better presented work.

Part of my confusion when webstar posted generally stating "some people on this site expect every site to have an outstanding design with unique flash interfaces etc etc" - I have no idea who these some people are, but no one in this thread is expecting unique flash interfaces... it's a nonsense sweeping statement based on nothing anyone had said - I can't in fact remember the last time anyone's advice on DT was that it needed a unique flash interface, and I felt webstar saying this comment seemed to diffuse a lot of the suggestions we'd been giving - like they wouldn't be taken seriously anymore as "some people" were after something else. And I know it wasn't aimed at me particularly, I did word myself badly earlier.

[IaDT]

Awesome, overall good professional looking design. Personally I feel it's impossible to be original now a days. Plus most people seem to like familiar - anything else and they get confused and bail.

I agree the items in your portfolio are very bad and actually take away. Try adding some depth & energy to the screenshots.

I would remove the Testimonial. Why not replace it with a feed from Twitter or something?

The picture of the girl is cute, but it actually reminds me of that page that all ways comes up when a site doesn't exist anymore. I know it's different but at very first glance it almost made me cmd+w. Sorry I can't think of any links with a sample of what I'm talking about.

The section "Grow Your Business With Us" You have the big 3 buttons. Why is there a roll over on the "more info" but not on the big button?

The home page scrolls too much. I think you should remove the "Our Development Stages" It's not an important piece of information.

It would be cool if you added in JQuery tabs and put " Grow Your Business With Us | Our Development Stages" as the tab menu. Also by adding in the tab menu people wont keep scrolling right past "Request A Free Quote!" It will stay in the visible area longer.

[ATLChris]

Originally Posted by Sean McP

It seems to me that this website is being posted purely for appraisal and not for criticism. I don't mean it in a harsh way, but it doesn't seem that, based on your responses, you're going to make any changes to the website from what we've all said here.

That is not true. I plan to take your advise in to account. I am currently on vacation and am not doing any work on my sites.

[ATLChris]

Originally Posted by IaDT

Awesome, overall good professional looking design. Personally I feel it's impossible to be original now a days. Plus most people seem to like familiar - anything else and they get confused and bail.

I agree the items in your portfolio are very bad and actually take away. Try adding some depth & energy to the screenshots.

I would remove the Testimonial. Why not replace it with a feed from Twitter or something?

The picture of the girl is cute, but it actually reminds me of that page that all ways comes up when a site doesn't exist anymore. I know it's different but at very first glance it almost made me cmd+w. Sorry I can't think of any links with a sample of what I'm talking about.

The section "Grow Your Business With Us" You have the big 3 buttons. Why is there a roll over on the "more info" but not on the big button?

The home page scrolls too much. I think you should remove the "Our Development Stages" It's not an important piece of information.

It would be cool if you added in JQuery tabs and put " Grow Your Business With Us | Our Development Stages" as the tab menu. Also by adding in the tab menu people wont keep scrolling right past "Request A Free Quote!" It will stay in the visible area longer.

You make some very good points. I am defiantly going to make some changes based on what all I have read in this thread when I get back from vacation.

[bazzle]

Originally Posted by Maerk

Because he asked for C&C, not for me to sit praising it, it's a waste of my time. We're blunt and we dive straight in to help quickly, or not at all.

It may seem like I spend very little time saying something is nice, and more time suggesting fixes, because well that's true.

Not about to deny it.

I say very little in threads where the design is actually great because there's nothing I feel I can add to it, and I say very little or nothing at all in threads where the design is beyond saving unless they need a bit of a wake up call.

In threads like this, I very swiftly sum up what works, and then dive straight into trying to offer advice on what could improve it. Because that's simply how I approach this section on the site. Regardless of whether I'm harsh, or fuzzy and molly coddling, I generally am trying to get someone to produce stronger design. Isn't like I'd post so much if I was just feeling like ripping someone apart.


And I don't get why you just posted Kyan? I think that's a great example of a non forgettable, non generic but very clean crisp well designed site. Everything I've been pushing for infact.

It's not ground breaking, but it's a darn site more impressive than the Collective Core site as it stands currently, and with a much stronger attention to detail and better presented work.

I didn't mean to post Kyan, I got my bookmarks mixed up. Can't think of who I was thinking of as I made the mistake of posting that reply when I was back from a night out and under the influence. Some agency I looked at recenly which massively prides itself on meticulous attention to detail.

I can also say that I respect everyones opinions, I guess I just became irked because this site seemed to have recieved just as much criticism as most of the amatuer tripe that gets posted here, when this is something that can be classed as professional quality. Everyone seems to make criticisms where thay are due but neglect to give credit when that is due - both of which is important to form a balanced critique.

[bjzaba]

Interesting discussion - I've been following in the background. I'd have to say I agree with both you. Honest and justified praise is as important as harsh and to the point critiques. Haha, I doubt this guy is even listening to us, though. For all your justified comments, maerk, I don't think he'll change it.

[freelancr]

Can't be arsed to read the whole thread... but get rid of the fugly bird with the specs.