[dtrenz]

it is one thing to explain your PoV, it is quite another to arrogantly dismiss the PoVs of others.

i'm done with this discussion.

i would like someone to respond to my questions (a & b) above, please...

[pgo]

Originally Posted by dtrenz

a) being a "professional" does not require a degree in anything, only that you regularly earn money in a profession. how many professional musicians went to the berklee college of music, or Julliard?

b) what's wrong with using dreamweaver? or are you specifically referring to dreamweaver WYSIWYG designing? I use dreamweaver in "coder" mode only, because notepad is lacking and homesite, um.. well, is now dreamweaver.

Sure, I'll answer those.

a) You're right and wrong. People can earn money who are completely unprofessional. Professionalism requires a certain level of expertise coupled with a professional attitude and maturity level.

b) Nothing. I'm using it right now! No WYSIWYG, of course. No point really as it fucks up good coding as badly (or worse) than IE does. I think when people criticize DW, it's the code it spits out, which is pretty horrendous. This discussion has gone on on this site many times - it all comes down to the user because the tool is only as good as the one using it.

And, FYI, ignore lists are a beautiful thing!

[BrunoSerge]

Originally Posted by cocknose

STOP bein sooo L.A.
Its because of people like you that makes the rest of the world hate americans...
You give the U.S of A the bad rep.
All those poor lovely people have to have a bad reputation because of the small majority of people like yourself... Stop bein so self richeous ...
maybe now people are critiquing from there hearts and not there heads, but don't you think there is a reason for that?
this many people can not be bastards just for the fun of it without a reason, can they?....
GO AWAY...

Actually, I was born in Africa and I am Portuguese.


dtrenz, I totally agree with your a&b points. As a musician, I know exactly what you mean when you speak of Berklee, and I believe that the best education is definitely not delivered by colleges, but by professional/social practice, allied with genuine love and dedication. That's why I respect designers, and specially musicians, educated by that method. I am one of them too (although I was in university, multimedia engineering, for almost 4 years, and I had piano/music theory classes for 5 years as a kid, I never relied on that to learn what I love).

About Dreamweaver, I agree that there's nothing wrong with using it as a code editor, like you and me do. But usually someone more unaware will try to say that it "looks like dreamweaver code" even when there's no "dreamweaver code", just to try to attack someone. What you must realise is that who said that wasn't really attacking Dreamweaver, just using it as a prop to attack me in some way.

[dtrenz]

Originally Posted by pgo

a) You're right and wrong. People can earn money who are completely unprofessional. Professionalism requires a certain level of expertise coupled with a professional attitude and maturity level.

» Being a professional has little to do with professionalism, IMO. I value professionalism a great deal, but there are many unprofessional professionals.

Originally Posted by pgo

b) Nothing. I'm using it right now! No WYSIWYG, of course. No point really as it fucks up good coding as badly (or worse) than IE does. I think when people criticize DW, it's the code it spits out, which is pretty horrendous. This discussion has gone on on this site many times - it all comes down to the user because the tool is only as good as the one using it.

» OK, that's what I thought. Anything that auto-codes is utter crap (i.e. Frontpage, Dreamweaver WYSIWYG, MS Word... yes I have seen sites designed in Word).

Originally Posted by pgo

And, FYI, ignore lists are a beautiful thing!

» I just started here, I don't want to start ignoring anyone already. I have to save something for tomorrow, right?

[dtrenz]

Originally Posted by BrunoSerge

dtrenz, I totally agree with your a&b points. As a musician, I know exactly what you mean when you speak of Berklee, and I believe that the best education is definitely not delivered by colleges, but by professional/social practice, allied with genuine love and dedication. That's why I respect designers, and specially musicians, educated by that method. I am one of them too (although I was in university, multimedia engineering, for almost 4 years, and I had piano classes for 5 years as a kid, I never relied on that to learn what I love).

Please don't misunderstand me... I have a great deal of respect for trained musicians. My point was that you don't have to be educated or trained to do something in order to be considered a professional.

I wish I would've gone to Berklee...

[pgo]

Originally Posted by dtrenz

» Being a professional has little to do with professionalism, IMO. I value professionalism a great deal, but there are many unprofessional professionals.

Yeah, yeah. Semantics.

As far as I'm concerned, if you're unprofessional, you're not a professional.

[BrunoSerge]

Originally Posted by dtrenz

I wish I would've gone to Berklee...

Me too, but I would never brag about it like it was a special pedestal.

For everyone's information, the human being, ever since homo erectus, was blessed with the mental ability to ignore someone or something in order to properly prioritize his thoughts. If someone here needs an ignore list to do that, that is not reason to laugh, it can be a very concerning incapacity.

pgo: personally, I think your attitude was quite unprofessional.

[b v]

Originally Posted by BrunoSerge

The thing is, you're not a professional photographer, and you're not even a professional designer. You're a web developper. According to your opinion, I should drop the "embellishments", as you call it, and focus on coding (even thought I and other designers now work with web developpers - that's why you can see sites in my portfolio like www.genxy.net or http://wt.genxy.net - or are you insinuating that those sites are badly coded? Those are e-commerce sites (CSS, PHP, XHTML), totally customizable through the backend by the client).

Frankly, what you just said is typical coming from a coder like you. Go do your little CSS thing with last-hour designs, and leave a designer doing what he knows best. You'll need a pure designer to do the "too showy" thing that you hate so much - Your denial state is hilarious.

tool

[pinksage]

This got wayyy off topic to what this section is about. Sooo, yeah.

[Scott]

wohoo another sunny day outside,