Web Design Forums

stealthcow · 13-09-2005, 05:40

If I add text to the top of a page in the form of

Code:

<h1 class="blah">title with keywords</h1>
<p class="blah">description with keywords</p>

stylesheet
--------------------

.blah {
display: none;
}

then obviously the browser wont display it - but will Google and other search engines still index the text and use it for SEO?

cam · 13-09-2005, 05:50

Yes google will still see it, but what you're talking about is black-hat SEO and should be avoided.

Potentially the site could be banned from Google SERPS.

gray · 13-09-2005, 05:55

ooh you could make the text the same colour as the background!

lyndon · 13-09-2005, 06:31

hidden text, in any form, if discovered will normally result in the sites' URL being banned permanently from the search engine index.

Prole · 13-09-2005, 06:52

if it's a company site then think very carefully about doing that as there's nothing a competitor will relish more than seeing your site banned in google.

lyndon · 13-09-2005, 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prole

if it's a company site then think very carefully about doing that as there's nothing a competitor will relish more than seeing your site banned in google.

agreed, and all it takes is one email from them to Google, Y! or any other engine pointing out the "black hat" seo and your gone....

pgo · 13-09-2005, 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyndon

hidden text, in any form, if discovered will normally result in the sites' URL being banned permanently from the search engine index.

How about image replacement techniques? Surely Google won't mind that.

lyndon · 13-09-2005, 06:59

unless a disgruntled competitor/ex-employee/arsehole grasses you up.....

Is it really worth it in the long run????

pgo · 13-09-2005, 07:05

Depends, I suppose. It's a rather common practice - that an sIFR sorts of things. I'm sure Google is aware of it and investigates those sorts of things - seeing as the text is there, but the user simply sees it in a different form.

It would be irresponsible of them to get a report and not look into it. I'll look into this more...

lyndon · 13-09-2005, 07:08

sorry, misunderstood. I thought you were on about cloaking / hiding text for SEO purposes.

If you have text "Home" and a graphic overlaying it with something similar then it wouldn't be a problem but if your going out of your way to hide keywords then thats a completely different kettle of fish.....

pgo · 13-09-2005, 07:26

Made me nervous there.

finbarr · 13-09-2005, 07:34

Ive used this hidden technique on h1 and h2 tags recently:- basically to replace the h1/h2 with an image defined in css and then put a span around the actual text and hide it - this is so that if a browser has css disabled they will still see the headers displayed as text. I understood it was a valid way of doing things.
R U saying that my site could be banned for doing this?

pgo · 13-09-2005, 07:37

I don't think so. I think if someone reported you to Google for that, Google would check the accused site and say "Oh, well it's in images, but it's there. Not a scam."

finbarr · 13-09-2005, 07:41

the technique is fairly common, right? So how does google understand that its not an effort to dupe it? And would it really care? Or, would it just blacklist the site until it was looked into. None of which are referable

pgo · 13-09-2005, 07:43

I would think - and don't quote me on this - that if Google gets a report, someone from Google must personally check the site to be sure it's an authentic SEO scam.

d*d · 13-09-2005, 08:05

How do you know if your site gets banned, do they send you a complimentary email - is there a list of banned sites or does it just dissapear

lyndon · 13-09-2005, 10:10

It just disappears from the search engine results - plus your page rank disappears and is replaced (normally) by a grey bar.

Most of the time a Google Human will check reports - if you're worried then checkout http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html

stealthcow · 13-09-2005, 10:40

that lynx browser shows the power of CSS when it comes to SEO

cam · 13-09-2005, 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by finbarr

the technique is fairly common, right? So how does google understand that its not an effort to dupe it? And would it really care? Or, would it just blacklist the site until it was looked into. None of which are referable

the googlebot will be smart enough to differentiate between keyword spamming and image/flash replacement. don't worry about it

Brown · 14-09-2005, 11:54

banished from the internet for having a capacious negative margin.

13-09-2005, 05:40	#1 (permalink)
stealthcow knocking heads Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,890	display: none If I add text to the top of a page in the form of Code: <h1 class="blah">title with keywords</h1> <p class="blah">description with keywords</p> stylesheet -------------------- .blah { display: none; } then obviously the browser wont display it - but will Google and other search engines still index the text and use it for SEO?

13-09-2005, 06:52	#5 (permalink)
Prole Right turn, Clyde Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 377	if it's a company site then think very carefully about doing that as there's nothing a competitor will relish more than seeing your site banned in google. __________________ everything was great til i got here

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13-09-2005, 05:50	#2 (permalink)
cam vague™ Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Glasgow Posts: 5,196	Yes google will still see it, but what you're talking about is black-hat SEO and should be avoided. Potentially the site could be banned from Google SERPS.

13-09-2005, 05:55	#3 (permalink)
gray i still want paying Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: newcastle, uk Posts: 4,728	ooh you could make the text the same colour as the background!

13-09-2005, 06:31	#4 (permalink)
lyndon Venti Macchiato Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 1,156	hidden text, in any form, if discovered will normally result in the sites' URL being banned permanently from the search engine index.

13-09-2005, 06:59	#8 (permalink)
lyndon Venti Macchiato Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 1,156	unless a disgruntled competitor/ex-employee/arsehole grasses you up..... Is it really worth it in the long run????

13-09-2005, 07:05	#9 (permalink)
pgo i'm done, son Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,262	Depends, I suppose. It's a rather common practice - that an sIFR sorts of things. I'm sure Google is aware of it and investigates those sorts of things - seeing as the text is there, but the user simply sees it in a different form. It would be irresponsible of them to get a report and not look into it. I'll look into this more...

13-09-2005, 07:08	#10 (permalink)
lyndon Venti Macchiato Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 1,156	sorry, misunderstood. I thought you were on about cloaking / hiding text for SEO purposes. If you have text "Home" and a graphic overlaying it with something similar then it wouldn't be a problem but if your going out of your way to hide keywords then thats a completely different kettle of fish.....

13-09-2005, 07:26	#11 (permalink)
pgo i'm done, son Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,262	Made me nervous there.

13-09-2005, 07:34	#12 (permalink)
finbarr what a pile of dogshit? Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: london Posts: 2,449	Ive used this hidden technique on h1 and h2 tags recently:- basically to replace the h1/h2 with an image defined in css and then put a span around the actual text and hide it - this is so that if a browser has css disabled they will still see the headers displayed as text. I understood it was a valid way of doing things. R U saying that my site could be banned for doing this?

13-09-2005, 07:37	#13 (permalink)
pgo i'm done, son Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,262	I don't think so. I think if someone reported you to Google for that, Google would check the accused site and say "Oh, well it's in images, but it's there. Not a scam."

13-09-2005, 07:41	#14 (permalink)
finbarr what a pile of dogshit? Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: london Posts: 2,449	the technique is fairly common, right? So how does google understand that its not an effort to dupe it? And would it really care? Or, would it just blacklist the site until it was looked into. None of which are referable

13-09-2005, 07:43	#15 (permalink)
pgo i'm done, son Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,262	I would think - and don't quote me on this - that if Google gets a report, someone from Google must personally check the site to be sure it's an authentic SEO scam.

13-09-2005, 08:05	#16 (permalink)
d*d Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bristol Posts: 3,063	How do you know if your site gets banned, do they send you a complimentary email - is there a list of banned sites or does it just dissapear

13-09-2005, 10:10	#17 (permalink)
lyndon Venti Macchiato Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 1,156	It just disappears from the search engine results - plus your page rank disappears and is replaced (normally) by a grey bar. Most of the time a Google Human will check reports - if you're worried then checkout http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html

13-09-2005, 10:40	#18 (permalink)
stealthcow knocking heads Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,890	that lynx browser shows the power of CSS when it comes to SEO

14-09-2005, 11:54	#20 (permalink)
Brown volkswagen yellow & gold Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: london, england. Posts: 6,214	banished from the internet for having a capacious negative margin.

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