[Luke Redpath]

I hear words like "actually a proper programming platform" etc.

Sounds like they are talking crap to me. PHP5 is most definately a "proper" platform.

[sleepingfish]

Fair enough, they're going to be biased because they use ASP a lot more, but from the little that I can gather .NET does seem pretty powerful.

I'm assuming you're a PHP user, have you had a go with ASP.NET?

Originally Posted by Developr

php is a quick and dirty scripting language that has no enterprise functionaltiy, meaning that for larger multitiered applications etc is is shit. Much like asp.

[sleepingfish]

OK, after a bit of a root around and a bit of a natter it seem that PHP and ASP is for your basic dynamic website stuff, but if its a more complex site or application that's going to take you more than a couple of days to code then you need a framework such as ASP.NET.

Right, that's quite enough of that, back to my crayons.

[Luke Redpath]

There are plenty of frameworks out there for PHP...here are a handful:

http://www.mojavi.org/
http://www.xisc.com/
http://phrame.sourceforge.net/

Lots more...
http://wact.sourceforge.net/index.ph...ksWrittenInPhp

Its quite possible to implement enterprise level techniques and functionality like unit testing/test driven development, design patterns, including the MVC pattern.

Your developer's comment on PHP just makes him seem incredibly ignorant of what PHP (certainly as of PHP5) is capable of.

Note, that I'm not trying to put down ASP.NET here. No, I've not used it - I made the choice to switch from classic ASP to PHP and throw myself into advanced-level PHP rather than ASP.NET and am happy with that choice.

But I will argue that PHP is more than capable of producing enterprise-level app's. Its also worth noting that advanced PHP development draws more parralels with Java/JSPs than ASP.NET.

I'd beg your developer's to post their opinions on the Sitepoint Advanced PHP forum; there are a lot of exerienced programmers who would love to disagree.

http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=147

[sleepingfish]

Originally Posted by Luke Redpath

I'd beg your developer's to post their opinions on the Sitepoint Advanced PHP forum; there are a lot of exerienced programmers who would love to disagree.

Sounds like a great place to discuss ASP.NET!

[Luke Redpath]

Originally Posted by sleepingfish

Sounds like a great place to discuss ASP.NET!

Note by "advanced programmers" I by no means meant "exclusive PHP programmers". They will happily point out PHP's problems and flaws, and ASP.NET's plus points. A lot of them have experience in other languages, from more recent languages such as Ruby and Python to older languages such as C++ etc.

In fact, here is a reasonably objective thread on this very issue:

http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...=223591&page=1

I think the conclusion is, PHP is by no means perfect, perhaps even not quite "enterprise-ready" (depending on your definition of "enterprise-ready"), but it is getting there. Meanwhile, ASP.NET is not perfect either, and PHP is certainly more than a "quick and dirty scripting language".

[sleepingfish]

I'm sure PHP and ASP (both of which he was referring to) are certainly more than "quick and dirty scripting language"s, they were the words of a developer who has had to built complex applications from ASP and PHP until recently moving to the ASP.NET framework.

You're always going to get a bias against ASP.NET in an Advanced PHP forum, the same as you would in an Advanced ASP forum I'm sure, I guess its a bit of a Mac Vs PC thing.

Most of the guys here know all sorts of languages, and have several years software development experience and they have chosen ASP.NET, but similarly you have experience and have chosen PHP frameworks, i guess it comes down to personal preference, and what you're used to.

[Luke Redpath]

You're always going to get a bias against ASP.NET in an Advanced PHP forum

Not true. Read the thread I linked to.

i guess it comes down to personal preference, and what you're used to.

Certainly...I had over 4 years of ASP experience before moving over to PHP. I just objected to the description of PHP as "quick and dirty". The platform is what you make of it, and you can just as easily write terrible ASP.NET-based code I'm sure.

[sleepingfish]

Originally Posted by Luke Redpath

Not true. Read the thread I linked to.

Ok I'll take your word for it, as I've mentioned, I'm no PHP/ASP coder so I'm already stretching my boredom threshold by enquiring. I wondered if there was an simple answer (IE or FF style) but as always it seems to come down to personal preference and hours of research.

Originally Posted by Luke Redpath

Certainly...I had over 4 years of ASP experience before moving over to PHP. I just objected to the description of PHP as "quick and dirty". The platform is what you make of it, and you can just as easily write terrible ASP.NET-based code I'm sure.

You definitely can, not all of the guys here got to grip with it straight away

[Brown]

Originally Posted by Luke Redpath

Probably because some businesses are slow to embrace open-source technologies..perhaps they like the fact that you can get some kind of commercial support contract for Microsoft technologies...I have a feeling this will change in the coming years though now IBM are throwing their weight behind PHP. I guess ASP matured before PHP did, so it had a head start too.

also, lots of sme's are now using intranets and most of them use ms file and mail servers, seems logical to then develop your internal communications using asp. which would then make you pretty daft to use something else for your client facing site.

[Luke Redpath]

also, lots of sme's are now using intranets and most of them use ms file and mail servers, seems logical to then develop your internal communications using asp

Not sure about that. PHP does have COM interaction on Windows.

[Brown]

Originally Posted by Luke Redpath

Not sure about that. PHP does have COM interaction on Windows.

of course it does. but its always a pain in the arse and i've never seen someone from 'the it department' take a step back from a windows server and comfortably proclaim that you can run php on it.

[Luke Redpath]

Originally Posted by Brown

of course it does. but its always a pain in the arse and i've never seen someone from 'the it department' take a step back from a windows server and comfortably proclaim that you can run php on it.

Never had a problem myself. In fact, we are about to roll out a Windows-powered kiosk network that uses PHP for the backend.

[Brown]

Originally Posted by Luke Redpath

In fact, we are about to roll out a Windows-powered kiosk network that uses PHP for the backend.

i wouldn't be able to sleep at night if i was responsible for that.

[Luke Redpath]

Why not? Give me some conclusive proof that PHP is not stable on a Windows platform.

Meanwhile I give you this:

http://news.netcraft.com/archives/20...n_windows.html

And tell you to stop talking out of your arse.

[Brown]

now that's obviously not possible, you'd have to be a fuckwit and a fool to leave something running that's not stable.

why not? - b'cos i've never been comfortable with it. its like those mac emulators you get for pcs, or pc emulators for macs, just do it properly in the first place. and try not to use windows servers if you can help it (unless you're using .net of course).

[Luke Redpath]

I suggest you come back when you know what you are talking about.

If you can't back up what you are saying with real facts and information, don't say anything at all.

[Brown]

listen up cockfroth, all i'm saying is that each time i've tried to get the windows monkeys to sort out the server to run php, its not worked, or it has worked, but not for long. sometimes it just stops, other times its just not started properly in the first place. this is from large isp's to the bbc. i'm just not comfortable with it.

[Luke Redpath]

Then get some new Windows monkeys as they obviously aren't up to scratch...I don't care how "comfortable" you are with it, the fact remains you are talking out of your arse.

[Brown]

i'm not going to bother. there's no need for windows monkeys in the first place. waste of space the lot of them.