Web Design Forums

Anxious · 22-10-2007, 03:57

Can anyone help? I'm new to desktop publishing (aah!) and my first challenge is the design and print of the company annual report. I know barely anything about print so I'm looking for some guidance.

Luckily I'm starting off lightly - I've been asked to edit the company's previous annual report template in InDesign rather than create a new one. It gives me a bit longer to get to grasp with the idea of designing for print rather than the web.

Now, my problem is this - the printer is being very unhelpful. The printer contact normally used by the company no longer works for them and it's now a very snippy person who is dealing with us.

I need to give over a spec which they don't return to me marked with red text (my previous email looked like a bad homework assignment).

The previous annual report was printed on (what looks like to me) thin photo paper with a thicker outside cover, full colour. It has a dull shine (matt laminate?) throughout.

Any ideas? Is there a general print specification for brochures/annual reports?

I know I sound stupid, but I need to start somewhere I guess!

Herr Kurm · 22-10-2007, 04:27

If you could post your "homework" then. Its kinda hard help if the field is so wide. You might want to search this subforum for technical help, there was a thread aboot that recently.

Anxious · 22-10-2007, 04:42

It wasn't a terribly brilliant spec:

250 copies
a4 brochure
matt laminate
24 pages (inc. cover)

Questions asked in red:
> GSM?
> Extent of lamination?
> Spot colour? Full colour?

I think it's full colour and old report is all shiny so I think it's all been laminated. I think the cover feels as thick as normal card and the inside pages are just a little thicker than a normal piece of paper.

I've been having a look around the forum to see if I can get a bit more help, will give it another go, thanks!

Do Gooder · 22-10-2007, 05:02

GSM = Grams Per Square Meter. it is a mesurement of how heavy the paper stock used is. something average would be 150gsm with 250gsm cover.

guess it would be the cover that would be laminated. one side - on the outer.

hard to tell with the spot colour without having a look at the artwork

Do Gooder · 22-10-2007, 05:03

could always drop it in to us for a gander if your in town.

Anxious · 22-10-2007, 05:05

Thanks for that - the average GSM is what I'm looking for. It's just your regular brochure.

I'm going to hunt for last year's invoice and see if they've got any detail on it.

Talk about a steep learning curve!

Thanks.

Herr Kurm · 22-10-2007, 05:05

If it feels like slippery plastic it is shine-lamination (fuck me if I know an English term for that), if it is slightly abrasive it is matte, it must be laminated from both sides of the paper tho - it will bend the paper if it is laminated only from one side.

GSM - again, most probably I just dont know this term in English.

Spot vs full colour - spot colour is a specific ink that has been produced according to pantone formulas (some specific ingredients in it) and there are pantone flabellums out there too that help you get the exact colour you want - you cant trust your monitor. Full colour refers to 4-ink printing (CMYK). The main difference is that when you have like upmost 3 spot inks/colours troughout your brochure it will be cheaper than 4 - ink/colour printing because each colour must be first represented on a laser - wooshwoosh - manufactured plate and that is actually the majority of the printing costs in small runs.

Check out this subforum thread "what to look out for" and in showcase emils last thread where I wrote some stuff, cant be bothered to dig it out tho.

Hope I can beat Cocky this time!

Anxious · 22-10-2007, 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Do Gooder

could always drop it in to us for a gander if your in town.

That'd be great, thanks! I might take you up on that!

Do Gooder · 22-10-2007, 05:07

I am a consummate groomer

Anxious · 22-10-2007, 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr Kurm

If it feels like slippery plastic it is shine-lamination (fuck me if I know an English term for that), if it is slightly abrasive it is matte, it must be laminated from both sides of the paper tho - it will bend the paper if it is laminated only from one side.

GSM - again, most probably I just dont know this term in English.

Spot vs full colour - spot colour is a specific ink that has been produced according to pantone formulas (some specific ingredients in it) and there are pantone flabellums out there too that help you get the exact colour you want - you cant trust your monitor. Full colour refers to 4-ink printing (CMYK). The main difference is that when you have like upmost 3 spot inks/colours troughout your brochure it will be cheaper than 4 - ink/colour printing because each colour must be first represented on a laser - wooshwoosh - manufactured plate and that is actually the majority of the printing costs in small runs.

Check out this subforum thread "what to look out for" and in showcase emils last thread where I wrote some stuff, cant be bothered to dig it out tho.

Hope I can beat Cocky this time!

That's brilliant info, thanks.

I'm annoyed that I don't have enough time to read through all of this and get it straight in my head. I've got 2 weeks to design and print the report. Just not enough time for me to get my head round it all!

cocknose · 22-10-2007, 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr Kurm

Hope I can beat Cocky this time!

I had to many questions to ask.... i knew you boys would be on the case!!...
TOO EARLY STILL!!!

Anxious · 22-10-2007, 05:42

The cover is very smooth - I don't think it's a matt laminate after all. Could it be gloss?

I found the invoice for last year's annual report and hopefully the printer will have a copy of what was ordered. Fingers crossed!

Thanks for all the advice.

Herr Kurm · 22-10-2007, 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anxious

The cover is very smooth - I don't think it's a matt laminate after all. Could it be gloss?

If its matte laminate it is so slightly abrasive you will not feel it under your finger, watch it under certain angle (level your eyes with the paper) and you will see that is ever so slightly like a sandpaper. It can be somesort of silk too, come to think about it.

centro · 22-10-2007, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anxious

Can anyone help? I'm new to desktop publishing (aah!) and my first challenge is the design and print of the company annual report. I know barely anything about print so I'm looking for some guidance.

Luckily I'm starting off lightly - I've been asked to edit the company's previous annual report template in InDesign rather than create a new one. It gives me a bit longer to get to grasp with the idea of designing for print rather than the web.

Now, my problem is this - the printer is being very unhelpful. The printer contact normally used by the company no longer works for them and it's now a very snippy person who is dealing with us.

I need to give over a spec which they don't return to me marked with red text (my previous email looked like a bad homework assignment).

The previous annual report was printed on (what looks like to me) thin photo paper with a thicker outside cover, full colour. It has a dull shine (matt laminate?) throughout.

Any ideas? Is there a general print specification for brochures/annual reports?

I know I sound stupid, but I need to start somewhere I guess!

You're Fucked mate.

Anxious · 22-10-2007, 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by centro

You're Fucked mate.

Probably.

steveb · 22-10-2007, 13:16

And if your printer is snippy with you, just get snippy right back! You're the customer and the one who pays his/her wages, so you don't need to take shit from anyone at the printers. Bu you don't need to give any either. Simply tell Snippy that you need some advice and that if Snippy can't provide it in a civil tone, you'll ask the same questions of Snippy's superior with an explanation of why you're "bothering" him/her.

Anxious · 22-10-2007, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveb

And if your printer is snippy with you, just get snippy right back! You're the customer and the one who pays his/her wages, so you don't need to take shit from anyone at the printers. Bu you don't need to give any either. Simply tell Snippy that you need some advice and that if Snippy can't provide it in a civil tone, you'll ask the same questions of Snippy's superior with an explanation of why you're "bothering" him/her.

I know - it's taken me hours to realise that! I'm taking cheek off a stranger for trying to give them business.

I won't be needing them for any printing in the future. The company I work for do a lot of printing and they spent thousands last year on materials which have to be renewed every 6 months (it goes out of date quickly).

I thought most people would jump at the chance to sell the expensive stuff to a newbie - seems they're a bit short sighted.

Thanks for all the advice everyone - I'll be phoning round a few printers tomorrow.

Do Gooder · 22-10-2007, 15:26

Try CCB. not the cheapest.. but the decent quality printers rarely are.

we have had dealings over the years with a chatterbox called Mandy 0141 353 3206

Anxious · 23-10-2007, 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Do Gooder

Try CCB. not the cheapest.. but the decent quality printers rarely are.

we have had dealings over the years with a chatterbox called Mandy 0141 353 3206

Thanks - have found their website: B2 four and five litho colour printing and four colour digital printinging

I'll give them a go today.

I heard back from Snippy McSnipperson today. I should get a quote today, hurrah! They seemed to be a bit more pleasant this time.

Still - on the lookout for a good Glasgow printers!

Hunch · 23-10-2007, 04:21

I would call a couple more printers, and tell them it's your first job, but you're looking to build up a relationship with a supplier. After that, I wouldn't expect anything less than them sending a rep over with a bunch of paper stock samples, example coatings etc. and take you through the whole process. That's their bloody job. Don't take snippy shit from anyone.

It would probably be handy if you had last years report available, if that's what you're using as a guide. Any printer worth their salt should be able to suggest what was used just by looking at it.

22-10-2007, 03:57	#1 (permalink)
Anxious On Pause Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Glasgow Posts: 1,189	Annual Report - Unhelpful Printer Can anyone help? I'm new to desktop publishing (aah!) and my first challenge is the design and print of the company annual report. I know barely anything about print so I'm looking for some guidance. Luckily I'm starting off lightly - I've been asked to edit the company's previous annual report template in InDesign rather than create a new one. It gives me a bit longer to get to grasp with the idea of designing for print rather than the web. Now, my problem is this - the printer is being very unhelpful. The printer contact normally used by the company no longer works for them and it's now a very snippy person who is dealing with us. I need to give over a spec which they don't return to me marked with red text (my previous email looked like a bad homework assignment). The previous annual report was printed on (what looks like to me) thin photo paper with a thicker outside cover, full colour. It has a dull shine (matt laminate?) throughout. Any ideas? Is there a general print specification for brochures/annual reports? I know I sound stupid, but I need to start somewhere I guess!

22-10-2007, 04:27	#2 (permalink)
Herr Kurm bloody peasant Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tallinn, Estonia Posts: 2,649	If you could post your "homework" then. Its kinda hard help if the field is so wide. You might want to search this subforum for technical help, there was a thread aboot that recently. __________________ refreshed portfolio

22-10-2007, 05:02	#4 (permalink)
Do Gooder Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,040	GSM = Grams Per Square Meter. it is a mesurement of how heavy the paper stock used is. something average would be 150gsm with 250gsm cover. guess it would be the cover that would be laminated. one side - on the outer. hard to tell with the spot colour without having a look at the artwork __________________ anti social marketing BANNED!!!!!!

22-10-2007, 05:03	#5 (permalink)
Do Gooder Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,040	could always drop it in to us for a gander if your in town. __________________ anti social marketing BANNED!!!!!!

22-10-2007, 05:05	#7 (permalink)
Herr Kurm bloody peasant Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tallinn, Estonia Posts: 2,649	If it feels like slippery plastic it is shine-lamination (fuck me if I know an English term for that), if it is slightly abrasive it is matte, it must be laminated from both sides of the paper tho - it will bend the paper if it is laminated only from one side. GSM - again, most probably I just dont know this term in English. Spot vs full colour - spot colour is a specific ink that has been produced according to pantone formulas (some specific ingredients in it) and there are pantone flabellums out there too that help you get the exact colour you want - you cant trust your monitor. Full colour refers to 4-ink printing (CMYK). The main difference is that when you have like upmost 3 spot inks/colours troughout your brochure it will be cheaper than 4 - ink/colour printing because each colour must be first represented on a laser - wooshwoosh - manufactured plate and that is actually the majority of the printing costs in small runs. Check out this subforum thread "what to look out for" and in showcase emils last thread where I wrote some stuff, cant be bothered to dig it out tho. Hope I can beat Cocky this time! __________________ refreshed portfolio

22-10-2007, 04:42	#3 (permalink)
Anxious On Pause Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Glasgow Posts: 1,189	It wasn't a terribly brilliant spec: 250 copies a4 brochure matt laminate 24 pages (inc. cover) Questions asked in red: > GSM? > Extent of lamination? > Spot colour? Full colour? I think it's full colour and old report is all shiny so I think it's all been laminated. I think the cover feels as thick as normal card and the inside pages are just a little thicker than a normal piece of paper. I've been having a look around the forum to see if I can get a bit more help, will give it another go, thanks!

22-10-2007, 05:05	#6 (permalink)
Anxious On Pause Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Glasgow Posts: 1,189	Thanks for that - the average GSM is what I'm looking for. It's just your regular brochure. I'm going to hunt for last year's invoice and see if they've got any detail on it. Talk about a steep learning curve! Thanks.

22-10-2007, 05:07	#9 (permalink)
Do Gooder Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,040	I am a consummate groomer __________________ anti social marketing BANNED!!!!!!

22-10-2007, 05:42	#12 (permalink)
Anxious On Pause Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Glasgow Posts: 1,189	The cover is very smooth - I don't think it's a matt laminate after all. Could it be gloss? I found the invoice for last year's annual report and hopefully the printer will have a copy of what was ordered. Fingers crossed! Thanks for all the advice.

22-10-2007, 13:16	#16 (permalink)
steveb 389 ppm and rising Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Järvenpää, Finland Posts: 4,024	And if your printer is snippy with you, just get snippy right back! You're the customer and the one who pays his/her wages, so you don't need to take shit from anyone at the printers. Bu you don't need to give any either. Simply tell Snippy that you need some advice and that if Snippy can't provide it in a civil tone, you'll ask the same questions of Snippy's superior with an explanation of why you're "bothering" him/her. __________________ My free fonts www.utfi.net

22-10-2007, 15:26	#18 (permalink)
Do Gooder Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,040	Try CCB. not the cheapest.. but the decent quality printers rarely are. we have had dealings over the years with a chatterbox called Mandy 0141 353 3206 __________________ anti social marketing BANNED!!!!!!

23-10-2007, 04:21	#20 (permalink)
Hunch Grumpy old man Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: North Japan Posts: 1,375	I would call a couple more printers, and tell them it's your first job, but you're looking to build up a relationship with a supplier. After that, I wouldn't expect anything less than them sending a rep over with a bunch of paper stock samples, example coatings etc. and take you through the whole process. That's their bloody job. Don't take snippy shit from anyone. It would probably be handy if you had last years report available, if that's what you're using as a guide. Any printer worth their salt should be able to suggest what was used just by looking at it.

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