Web Design Forums

pgo · 08-06-2005, 03:09

I'm looking to get some business cards and perhaps letterhead (at a later date) together.

Software recommendations? InDesign, I assume. The real question is, since I have no knowledge of anything print-related, could you all give some links on the basics of print design? The technical things I'd need to know to put these things together.

Sometimes I wish I had taken some graphic design courses in college/university. I'll continue on Google.

Much obliged for any help, recommendations, etc. Links are good, books would be fine, too.

weldo · 08-06-2005, 03:38

Me neither. Sorry.
I could do with some links too.

Although for some reason lately I've been thinking about a TOTAL change - just getting bored/frustrated/pissed off with everything....

Anyone got any good links for completely different jobs ??
(wait for it......)

pgo · 08-06-2005, 03:40

Here you go.

Still looking for advice on print design, myself. I think I've found weldo a new career.

seen.to · 08-06-2005, 03:55

I did print for a while back in the day so I'll TRY to help with any specific questions... Course I'm an old cunt so most of the stuff I remember is probably obsolete by now but worth getting an answer from me just to have them take the piss when you visit the printers

pgo · 08-06-2005, 03:57

I'm not finding any online resources through Google. Guess I'll go buy InDesign and an 800 page InDesign book.

Now...where's that credit card...

weldo · 08-06-2005, 03:58

"Twelve thousand Megabytes of Man" - Wicked !!!

I'm off to strip for the ladies........
Oh no, hang on......problem......

I'm more like "Fourteen stone of lazy twat"

pgo · 08-06-2005, 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by weldo

lazy twat

Hey, in my current (prolonged

) state of celibacy, I'll take what I can get.

Lazy or not - a twat's a twat!

"This is today's special message and most quotable sentence."

weldo · 08-06-2005, 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by seen.to

I did print for a while back in the day so I'll TRY to help with any specific questions... Course I'm an old cunt so most of the stuff I remember is probably obsolete by now but worth getting an answer from me just to have them take the piss when you visit the printers

seen.to · 08-06-2005, 04:01

I is laughing now... Not sure how much of it is alcohol induced tho.

seen.to · 08-06-2005, 04:02

Sheesh you've found my first machine o_O

I did work on a letterpress machine back in the olden days but not quite as ancient as that one.

pgo · 20-06-2005, 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by seen.to

I did print for a while back in the day so I'll TRY to help with any specific questions...

Here's one for raising semi-dead topics.

What I specifically want, is technical information on things like business cards, letterhead, and the like. The basic "identity" stuff.

I can find resources and use my visual knowledge for the design part, but the technical aspects are different. For instance, is there a specific size for business cards? Should there be an amount of whitespace around the business card for the printer? Cutting guides? Should I submit eps? Tiff? Not RGB, Pantone or anything else - but CMYK, right? What DPI - 300, 150, 6000?

That sort of thing.

Also, I got my new printer and it can do 4x6, 8.5x11, A4 and others. I learned that A4 is 8.5"x11.7" - so why would someone use "A4" instead of 8.5x11?

Basic print knowledge. Please. I will accept any form of resource - from direct knowledge to websites to books and other physical publications.

Narate · 20-06-2005, 04:21

http://www.pass4press.com/cgi-bin/wms.pl/430

pgo · 20-06-2005, 04:22

God bless you, my son. I shall continue.

Keep the links/books/info coming, people.

Guevara · 20-06-2005, 04:32

300 dpi should be fine. I don't know 'bout sizes as they tend to vary depending on personal preference - the two I have in my wallet are 90mm x 52mm and 83mm x 54mm respectively - about credit card size as a general rule. Paper weight should be at least 160 gsm I reckon, and you're right with CMYK. As for formats, I tend to use PDFs as any printer will accept them, although make sure you check the export settings as different printers may want different compression rates or bleed marks etc.

As for A4 - it's easier to say than 8.5 x 11...

pgo · 20-06-2005, 04:39

Gotcha. What software should you use - Illustrator, InDesign, or even Photoshop?

I mean, if I've got vector work on a business card, it's obviously going to be done in Illustrator or possibly InDesign.

Question about bleed marks - how far from the "edge" of the business card should they be? Say I make a business card at 83mm x 54mm - should I make it 93x64 or something - adding 10mm (5mm/side) for bleed and drawing a mark around the outer edge?

Like so...(the red rectangle is the card design, the white "padding" (hehe, box model) is the bleed area and the red line is bleed marks)?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/brau/bcard.gif

A crude example, yes, but MSPaint is what I have to work with at the job.

Guevara · 20-06-2005, 04:56

Yep, they're bleed marks, although they only need to be about 3mm. InDesign has settings that produce these when you create a new document (I think it's a red line outside the page border). Software-wise, I use Illustrator for vector based logos etc then place the files in InDesign for layouts. I probably wouldn't use something like Photoshop unless I were including photos or rasterized images, but then that'll take the cost up as you'll have more colours, so my preference would be to keep things simple, maybe two to four colours.

Narate · 20-06-2005, 04:57

I usually work to the 3mm on every edge for bleed, then an extra 5 mm inside that for content placement and add 20mm to the document size for the paper size.

pgo · 20-06-2005, 05:16

Sounds good. Thanks for the help fellas.

Limbo · 20-06-2005, 05:27

PGO

Are you thinking about doing more print work in the future? Or is this a one off? Indesign isn't cheap and really you could do all your design work in illustrator (if you have that?) If you are going to do more print work I would definitely consider getting a page layout software like Quark or Indesign.

Your artwork in this case should be made using vectors. I would then add text (address name etc) using a pagelayout tool like indesign - although you could use illustrator.

Do you have access to pantone refs? Ideally you want to colour match with simething physical so you know what your going to get. The differences between your screen and the printed article will be always be noticable.

Demand your printer provide you colour proofs before they go to print so you can see if there is any errors.

As for file types, well your printer should be able to accept most types. PDF (as mentioned) is the way to go, but they will happily take EPS or a Quark doc + images (lock your page if you provide it this way)

pgo · 20-06-2005, 05:44

I think this'll be an on and off thing for me, Limbo - mostly if and when clients request it. Or I suggest it - if I'm doing a site, I may offer to do business cards and letterhead as well, for example.

I don't have InDesign, yet. However, I've been considering buying the Creative Suite Standard (an $800 investment), which is (of course) Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign. This should cover all my needs for web development and the basic sorts of print projects I can foresee myself doing. I do have Illustrator, but it's a copy from a friend for the time being - since I don't use it too often (I know, I know, I shouldn't...which is why I think I'll buy the standard suite at some point in the near-ish future).

I do not have direct access to pantone refs. Although, I do know several established graphic designers who probably do - and most print shops should have them as well. With the small amount of print work I'll be doing, it'll be enough of a solution.

08-06-2005, 03:09	#1 (permalink)
pgo i'm done, son Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,262	Links and info for basic print stuff... I'm looking to get some business cards and perhaps letterhead (at a later date) together. Software recommendations? InDesign, I assume. The real question is, since I have no knowledge of anything print-related, could you all give some links on the basics of print design? The technical things I'd need to know to put these things together. Sometimes I wish I had taken some graphic design courses in college/university. I'll continue on Google. Much obliged for any help, recommendations, etc. Links are good, books would be fine, too.

08-06-2005, 03:38	#2 (permalink)
weldo now with added beard Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Liverpool Posts: 5,233	Me neither. Sorry. I could do with some links too. Although for some reason lately I've been thinking about a TOTAL change - just getting bored/frustrated/pissed off with everything.... Anyone got any good links for completely different jobs ?? (wait for it......) __________________ fuck signatures

08-06-2005, 03:55	#4 (permalink)
seen.to unusual suspect ™ Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: DE, USA Posts: 2,711	I did print for a while back in the day so I'll TRY to help with any specific questions... Course I'm an old cunt so most of the stuff I remember is probably obsolete by now but worth getting an answer from me just to have them take the piss when you visit the printers __________________ [[proverbs and quotes]] [[blog]] [[work]] [[photowebby - some photo's by me]]

08-06-2005, 03:58	#6 (permalink)
weldo now with added beard Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Liverpool Posts: 5,233	"Twelve thousand Megabytes of Man" - Wicked !!! I'm off to strip for the ladies........ Oh no, hang on......problem...... I'm more like "Fourteen stone of lazy twat" __________________ fuck signatures

08-06-2005, 04:01	#9 (permalink)
seen.to unusual suspect ™ Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: DE, USA Posts: 2,711	I is laughing now... Not sure how much of it is alcohol induced tho. __________________ [[proverbs and quotes]] [[blog]] [[work]] [[photowebby - some photo's by me]]

08-06-2005, 03:40	#3 (permalink)
pgo i'm done, son Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,262	Here you go. Still looking for advice on print design, myself. I think I've found weldo a new career.

08-06-2005, 03:57	#5 (permalink)
pgo i'm done, son Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,262	I'm not finding any online resources through Google. Guess I'll go buy InDesign and an 800 page InDesign book. Now...where's that credit card...

08-06-2005, 04:02	#10 (permalink)
seen.to unusual suspect ™ Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: DE, USA Posts: 2,711	Sheesh you've found my first machine o_O I did work on a letterpress machine back in the olden days but not quite as ancient as that one. __________________ [[proverbs and quotes]] [[blog]] [[work]] [[photowebby - some photo's by me]]

20-06-2005, 04:21	#12 (permalink)
Narate Royalty™ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Manchester (UK) Posts: 3,211	http://www.pass4press.com/cgi-bin/wms.pl/430

20-06-2005, 04:22	#13 (permalink)
pgo i'm done, son Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,262	God bless you, my son. I shall continue. Keep the links/books/info coming, people.

20-06-2005, 04:32	#14 (permalink)
Guevara Gimme Ma Milk Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Anywhere I'm needed Posts: 219	300 dpi should be fine. I don't know 'bout sizes as they tend to vary depending on personal preference - the two I have in my wallet are 90mm x 52mm and 83mm x 54mm respectively - about credit card size as a general rule. Paper weight should be at least 160 gsm I reckon, and you're right with CMYK. As for formats, I tend to use PDFs as any printer will accept them, although make sure you check the export settings as different printers may want different compression rates or bleed marks etc. As for A4 - it's easier to say than 8.5 x 11...

20-06-2005, 04:39	#15 (permalink)
pgo i'm done, son Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,262	Gotcha. What software should you use - Illustrator, InDesign, or even Photoshop? I mean, if I've got vector work on a business card, it's obviously going to be done in Illustrator or possibly InDesign. Question about bleed marks - how far from the "edge" of the business card should they be? Say I make a business card at 83mm x 54mm - should I make it 93x64 or something - adding 10mm (5mm/side) for bleed and drawing a mark around the outer edge? Like so...(the red rectangle is the card design, the white "padding" (hehe, box model) is the bleed area and the red line is bleed marks)? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/brau/bcard.gif A crude example, yes, but MSPaint is what I have to work with at the job.

20-06-2005, 04:56	#16 (permalink)
Guevara Gimme Ma Milk Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Anywhere I'm needed Posts: 219	Yep, they're bleed marks, although they only need to be about 3mm. InDesign has settings that produce these when you create a new document (I think it's a red line outside the page border). Software-wise, I use Illustrator for vector based logos etc then place the files in InDesign for layouts. I probably wouldn't use something like Photoshop unless I were including photos or rasterized images, but then that'll take the cost up as you'll have more colours, so my preference would be to keep things simple, maybe two to four colours.

20-06-2005, 04:57	#17 (permalink)
Narate Royalty™ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Manchester (UK) Posts: 3,211	I usually work to the 3mm on every edge for bleed, then an extra 5 mm inside that for content placement and add 20mm to the document size for the paper size.

20-06-2005, 05:16	#18 (permalink)
pgo i'm done, son Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,262	Sounds good. Thanks for the help fellas.

20-06-2005, 05:27	#19 (permalink)
Limbo On yer bike... Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,961	PGO Are you thinking about doing more print work in the future? Or is this a one off? Indesign isn't cheap and really you could do all your design work in illustrator (if you have that?) If you are going to do more print work I would definitely consider getting a page layout software like Quark or Indesign. Your artwork in this case should be made using vectors. I would then add text (address name etc) using a pagelayout tool like indesign - although you could use illustrator. Do you have access to pantone refs? Ideally you want to colour match with simething physical so you know what your going to get. The differences between your screen and the printed article will be always be noticable. Demand your printer provide you colour proofs before they go to print so you can see if there is any errors. As for file types, well your printer should be able to accept most types. PDF (as mentioned) is the way to go, but they will happily take EPS or a Quark doc + images (lock your page if you provide it this way)

20-06-2005, 05:44	#20 (permalink)
pgo i'm done, son Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,262	I think this'll be an on and off thing for me, Limbo - mostly if and when clients request it. Or I suggest it - if I'm doing a site, I may offer to do business cards and letterhead as well, for example. I don't have InDesign, yet. However, I've been considering buying the Creative Suite Standard (an $800 investment), which is (of course) Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign. This should cover all my needs for web development and the basic sorts of print projects I can foresee myself doing. I do have Illustrator, but it's a copy from a friend for the time being - since I don't use it too often (I know, I know, I shouldn't...which is why I think I'll buy the standard suite at some point in the near-ish future). I do not have direct access to pantone refs. Although, I do know several established graphic designers who probably do - and most print shops should have them as well. With the small amount of print work I'll be doing, it'll be enough of a solution.

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