[sub]

Originally Posted by ben.

True, but irrelevant to the topic.

My point being, advising people to submit work to these unscrupulous sites only adds to further harm the industry. By the time he has a portfolio of work to show it could be that much harder for the guy to find a project that pays well.

[ben.]

These sites are already part of our industry, and have their place in the market. Nothing will change that, this trend will only increase, along with the trend of creating stock art/photography/etc.

Designers taking advantage of these sites just to get them started, do not help them grow. What helps them grow is much more complex set of economical circumstances that drive this trend forward. If he is smart enough, he will see what's wrong with it. If he isn't, he has no future anyway.

We must learn to accept this trend and accustom to it. And being hateful or nearly phobic to it as seen above is not the right way. This trend is present in almost every other industry, and yet expensive brands of clothes/groceries/etc. still prosper. They do not spit acid on their competitors that sell cheap crap. They know their position on the market.

[Paddy]

Designers don't have the luxury of being a consumer led, emotionally motivated service. They operate predominantly on a B2B basis, so comparing 99 Designs and Pentagram to Tesco and Harrods is nonsense.

I advise against crowd sourcing in this instance not because I'm afraid they will encroach on proper design studios (they won't), but rather because a young designer will learn nothing from the experience.

Six months from now, with minimal feedback from the "buyers" and a little misguided advice from other similarly inexperienced designers, he will be no better as a designer and won't have developed any skills in client interaction. He might be able use PotatoShop and Illustrator a little better but that doesn't make you a designer.

Just one branding project dealing with real people, and with proper follow through (printed collateral, etc.), even if it is never actually used, would be preferable to 100 logo competitions.

[ben.]

Originally Posted by Paddy

Just one branding project dealing with real people, and with proper follow through (printed collateral, etc.), even if it is never actually used, would be preferable to 100 logo competitions.

That's as may be, but It's impossible for a beginner to get that kind of opportunity. For god's sake I never said that starting doing competitions is the magical school that will prepare you to the world of graphic design, but nor there is one, as you imply ! You have to start somewhere and this is the least bad option.

Averagely open-minded person will see what is wrong, and will not take bad examples from there. But he will do actual projects, and that's what counts here. I started by doing competitions, and I still know it's the wrong way to base your living on. And I learned that on my own experience, not by listening to angry designers who could just be warming their own soup for all I knew.

And I never said six months. A month, two at most, combined with proper practical training such as tutorials and books, and he might just be ready for the real world if he has what it takes. The next step towards it, at least.

[sub]

So getting back on topic ...

bigsteve2008, why not put a slant on existing poorly designed popular idents?
It'll flex your creative muscle and demonstrate forward thinking from a branding point of view.

Work on a few examples of popular identities.
Show your concept beyond just a logo:

[ben.]

That's a good idea, but such attempts would look ill in a portfolio, looking too much like a school project, though if you choose a less-known brand, it might work great.

If you have a knack for branding, you can try making up your own brands, that you could later offer on IncSpring - Logos, Domains, Complete Brand Identity Packages. Those would also look much better in a portfolio.

[Pugsley]

Would it hell look bad in a portfolio?

Least you can show how your design can be applied to a real world brand.

[ben.]

That's what you see. Most clients would look at it as if you were just messing around, because nobody would offer you a real job.

[Limbo]

While ben made a couple of good points, especially on the subject of our vastly depressing industry, and before the thread veers off into a car crash of "we hate the newcomer's opinion on comp sites" lets lynch him, I think there are also other options open to the OP, other than comps and pro bono work for non-profits.

Talk to everyone you know, network yourself. Someone you know has an idea, or young business, or rebrand, or company expansion etc that needs an identity. Harness the power of your relatives and friends. Everyone you know (x) who they know = a lot or referrals. In addition you may actually make your first list of leads.

There is no such thing as a dead lead.

Can't hurt to ask.

[herenow]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

Would it hell look bad in a portfolio?

Least you can show how your design can be applied to a real world brand.

Sorry, if this is not a reply to the original poster´s request. But, do you put rejected designs in your actual portfolio? Are there common do´s and dont´s?

And to the original thread opener: Nobody has mentioned digitalpoint yet. IMHO it is the ultimate torture for designers. If you´d like to know more, send me a PM, but please do yourself a favor and avoid that place.

[DesignerGay]

Originally Posted by Paddy

I love you Pugs.

[skywidedesign]

Well I'd agree that competition sites are rubbish, and they do devalue the industry, but only to a point. Most of the work produced on these sites is amateurish, and any business with a budget will opt to work with an individual designer over receiving a pile of poorly designed identities.

These websites are the design world's bargain bin.