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neon · 07-06-2005, 03:59

I'm sorting out a load of invoices at the moment. I get the train everyday and just wondered would you include travel costs in the bill or not?

Some freelances do..some don't? Any advice much appreciated

d*d · 07-06-2005, 04:18

It would depend on the size of the job, the size of the company, how much I'd charged them and how much the train had costed. Would you include travel expenses if you drove? If possible try to clarify with the clients what expenses are covered at the start of a job

Mr Fred · 07-06-2005, 04:35

of course you do.

neon · 07-06-2005, 04:47

HAHAHA @ Mr Mik

Weeeell...I was working in house on adverts for Audi and Volkwagen and the train was a tenner a day. I was thinking same as you d*d if I was driving would I include the travel costs of that and thought maybe not. So I'm half and half about what to do. This is the beginning of my freelance days you see...

tomson · 07-06-2005, 05:06

i've never billed for travel expenses...it's usually assumed that you're working day starts when you arrived at the place of work and ends when you leave. But my hourly/daily rate takes into account that some traveling will be involved - so i'm more expensive if I have to travel but cheaper if I work at home in my pants. Its much easier to add a few quid per hour to your rate than present the client with an unexpected addition to your invoice.

Also from a tax point of view you usually can't claim travel as an expense.

Mr Fred · 07-06-2005, 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomson

i'm more expensive if I have to travel but cheaper if I work at home in my pants.

just like a cheap whore.

pgo · 07-06-2005, 05:23

Same's true of the expensive ones.

tomson · 07-06-2005, 05:24

you bitch

neon · 07-06-2005, 05:34

hmm thanks! I think im gonna take onboard what tomson said, except the working in pants bit

So this time round I'll let it slide, but next time instead of charging what it is an hour, just add abit extra to cover travel. It just when I did speak to them about it, they said, 'Just invoice us..' I said, 'Well you have all my timesheets/invoice there'. As if the information they have and what I could bill them as might work out different. So it threw me a bit. As for sorting out the tax..ummm. I'm keeping 25% aside as i've been advised but im still figuring it out. I'll get there eventually..

d*d · 07-06-2005, 05:52

put it on there, if they quibble remove it - don't be afraid to talk about money

mike_m · 07-06-2005, 05:57

From now on, stick an item in your contract that states that if you incur travel expenses relating to the job / project / contract, your client is liable for them. Also add that any materials or other expenses that are incurred in carrying out the project are liable to be paid by your client.

Either they will agree to that or not. then you can negotiate a bit.

As for the current thing, it all depends on the type of contract you have with them - read it well. Also, how is your employment classified with them - are you a contractor solely working for them while you are doing a project for them? Are you doing work for other clients at the same time? This is very important, as there's a new tax law (IR35) that makes life a lot harder for you if you are a contractor working for one company at a time.

Have a good look through: www.contractoruk.com for all the tax stuff, then go get an accountant sharpish. In fact go get an accountant right now - he/she will tell you exactly weither it's ok or not to bill for your train fare.

As an example though - a buddy of mine did a bit of IT support contracting - he realised that he could get a taxi to work and fully claim it back from his tax bill. But he was using an umbrella company that did all his accounts etc. and managed to save the majority of his tax from the Inland Revenue's sticky fingers... Can't remember the name of it but they were pretty good - took care of everything basically.

good luck

neon · 07-06-2005, 06:04

Nah I can't do it Captain! an hourly rate was discussed before I started and as tomson says work starts 9am til whenever...its becoming clear. Maybe if I'd set my own hourly rate I would have and be able to include a bit extra to cover travel. Just the finance burd over there confusing me..

Right its going in.the.post.

neon · 07-06-2005, 06:21

contract? what contract? they were supposed to give me a contract? No I think it was just a quick help us out for a week thing. They've been moving offices recently and I find out this week whether they're going to need me some more or not. I figure if they do then I'm going to need to get an accountant etc...but as it could just be a one off thing...probably not worth it.

I'm sat at work at the moment taking calls and inbetween time sorting out my tax code information since Inland have conviently lost my employment history back to 2003..my.brain.hurts..I can only work the left side of my brain.

Thanks for the help Mike!

07-06-2005, 03:59	#1 (permalink)
neon Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 368	Invoicing? include travel costs or not? I'm sorting out a load of invoices at the moment. I get the train everyday and just wondered would you include travel costs in the bill or not? Some freelances do..some don't? Any advice much appreciated

07-06-2005, 05:57	#11 (permalink)
mike_m Work faster microphone .. Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,709	From now on, stick an item in your contract that states that if you incur travel expenses relating to the job / project / contract, your client is liable for them. Also add that any materials or other expenses that are incurred in carrying out the project are liable to be paid by your client. Either they will agree to that or not. then you can negotiate a bit. As for the current thing, it all depends on the type of contract you have with them - read it well. Also, how is your employment classified with them - are you a contractor solely working for them while you are doing a project for them? Are you doing work for other clients at the same time? This is very important, as there's a new tax law (IR35) that makes life a lot harder for you if you are a contractor working for one company at a time. Have a good look through: www.contractoruk.com for all the tax stuff, then go get an accountant sharpish. In fact go get an accountant right now - he/she will tell you exactly weither it's ok or not to bill for your train fare. As an example though - a buddy of mine did a bit of IT support contracting - he realised that he could get a taxi to work and fully claim it back from his tax bill. But he was using an umbrella company that did all his accounts etc. and managed to save the majority of his tax from the Inland Revenue's sticky fingers... Can't remember the name of it but they were pretty good - took care of everything basically. good luck __________________

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07-06-2005, 04:18	#2 (permalink)
d*d Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bristol Posts: 3,155	It would depend on the size of the job, the size of the company, how much I'd charged them and how much the train had costed. Would you include travel expenses if you drove? If possible try to clarify with the clients what expenses are covered at the start of a job

07-06-2005, 04:35	#3 (permalink)
Mr Fred Magazines™ Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Glasgow.. Posts: 11,344	of course you do.

07-06-2005, 04:47	#4 (permalink)
neon Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 368	HAHAHA @ Mr Mik Weeeell...I was working in house on adverts for Audi and Volkwagen and the train was a tenner a day. I was thinking same as you d*d if I was driving would I include the travel costs of that and thought maybe not. So I'm half and half about what to do. This is the beginning of my freelance days you see...

07-06-2005, 05:06	#5 (permalink)
tomson Black & Proud Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,275	i've never billed for travel expenses...it's usually assumed that you're working day starts when you arrived at the place of work and ends when you leave. But my hourly/daily rate takes into account that some traveling will be involved - so i'm more expensive if I have to travel but cheaper if I work at home in my pants. Its much easier to add a few quid per hour to your rate than present the client with an unexpected addition to your invoice. Also from a tax point of view you usually can't claim travel as an expense.

07-06-2005, 05:23	#7 (permalink)
pgo i'm done, son Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,262	Same's true of the expensive ones.

07-06-2005, 05:24	#8 (permalink)
tomson Black & Proud Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,275	you bitch

07-06-2005, 05:34	#9 (permalink)
neon Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 368	hmm thanks! I think im gonna take onboard what tomson said, except the working in pants bit So this time round I'll let it slide, but next time instead of charging what it is an hour, just add abit extra to cover travel. It just when I did speak to them about it, they said, 'Just invoice us..' I said, 'Well you have all my timesheets/invoice there'. As if the information they have and what I could bill them as might work out different. So it threw me a bit. As for sorting out the tax..ummm. I'm keeping 25% aside as i've been advised but im still figuring it out. I'll get there eventually..

07-06-2005, 05:52	#10 (permalink)
d*d Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bristol Posts: 3,155	put it on there, if they quibble remove it - don't be afraid to talk about money

07-06-2005, 06:04	#12 (permalink)
neon Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 368	Nah I can't do it Captain! an hourly rate was discussed before I started and as tomson says work starts 9am til whenever...its becoming clear. Maybe if I'd set my own hourly rate I would have and be able to include a bit extra to cover travel. Just the finance burd over there confusing me.. Right its going in.the.post.

07-06-2005, 06:21	#13 (permalink)
neon Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 368	contract? what contract? they were supposed to give me a contract? No I think it was just a quick help us out for a week thing. They've been moving offices recently and I find out this week whether they're going to need me some more or not. I figure if they do then I'm going to need to get an accountant etc...but as it could just be a one off thing...probably not worth it. I'm sat at work at the moment taking calls and inbetween time sorting out my tax code information since Inland have conviently lost my employment history back to 2003..my.brain.hurts..I can only work the left side of my brain. Thanks for the help Mike!

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