Web Design Forums

ncollette · 07-05-2008, 12:23

Hi everyone!

I work in an ad agency that does close to zero interactive work, which has left me with little experience in web design. I have a lot of down time...not really surprising because again, we do NO web work (wtf?) so I've begun filling my time with tutorials on lynda.com. There are quite a few languages that I don't know - ajax, css, java, php, ruby, xhtml (yeah, basically all of them) - and it's hard to figure out where to start. So I guess my question is: to what extent do web designers, not programmers, need to know these languages (basic knowledge or pro level), and which language is best to start with?

Thanks for helping a desperate-to-grow newbie.

Aibrean · 07-05-2008, 12:29

css by far comes first.

jesusfreak101 · 07-05-2008, 12:29

i would start with html/css first...then move your way up the ladder into php, ajax, ruby etc.

well it does actually depend on what you want, i started with css and worked up. well im still working up lol some of these other languages are crazy!

pgo · 07-05-2008, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncollette

There are quite a few languages that I don't know - ajax, css, java, php, ruby, xhtml (yeah, basically all of them) - and it's hard to figure out where to start.

HTML and XHTML (they're almost the same). Then CSS. Then JavaScript.

That is most of what you need to know as a designer or front-end developer.

The rest - Java, PHP, Ruby - are all server-side programming languages. Not for the faint of heart.

Ajax ... is not a language - it's "Asynchronous JavaScript and XML". Basically, it uses JavaScript to make requests to the server (XML not required, necessarily) instead of reloading the entire page each time. Requirement: JavaScript (and a data source - XML, JSON, HTML, plain text). Though learning Ajax without knowing some server-side programming is pretty useless.

Forget lynda.com. Unless that place has updated (and I doubt it - judging by the piss poor code on their site) they don't teach best practices. As a beginner, all you need is HTML Dog. And they won't even charge you to teach you outdated techniques!

And the first link in my signature.

Bill Posters · 07-05-2008, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgo

The rest - Java, PHP, Ruby - are all server-side programming languages. Not for the faint of heart.

I dunno 'bout that, at least as far as PHP goes. The syntax of PHP is very similar to that of javascript, so a leap from js to PHP isn't that much of a leap at all.
The similarities between js and PHP certainly flattened much of the learning curve for me, turning something which I initially found quite initimidating (PHP) into something which was pretty easy to get to grips with.

Ditto your initial recommendation, though.

HTML and XHTML (they're almost the same). Then CSS. Then JavaScript (followed by familiarisation of one or more common libraries/frameworks such as jQuery, YUI, etc…).
Then PHP (taking in XML handling along the way).

Then I'd look into AJAX. (I'd suggest getting to grips with the component parts first - i.e. js + PHP)

pgo · 07-05-2008, 13:35

You're right about the PHP/JavaScript similarity in syntax.

ncollette · 07-05-2008, 13:49

Thanks you guys. That really helped. Looks like I'm starting with CSS.

pgo - I really appreciate you mentioning lynda.com is most likely outdated. I was worried about that. I'll check out HTML Dog and google some other CSS tutorial sites. Thanks again. BTW...update your blog

LukeV · 07-05-2008, 14:19

I'd have to disagree with pgo here, Lynda.com has great tutorials and they do in fact provide you with best practices. Besides the people that make the tutorials aren't the people that coded the website so that has no relation to their content. That's like saying a car salesman that drives a mini, only sells minis.

I learned quite a bit of PHP from their. As for xhtml and css, I learned most of it with the help of a friend who walked me through it. He even thought me alot of PHP. I suggest you find someone who would do the same.

W3Schools is a great place to find help.

pgo · 07-05-2008, 16:07

You're right - I could be wrong about Lynda.com.

But why pay for something that's just as readily available for free?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncollette

BTW...update your blog

Yeah, yeah.

LukeV · 07-05-2008, 16:45

Well pgo it all comes down to personal preference. Personally I don't like lengthy reads. I tried learning PHP through "PHP and Mysql For Dummies" and I just couldn't get things through. On the other hand I found no problem in spending 4 hours watching a video tutorial on PHP. Depends I guess.

pgo · 07-05-2008, 16:56

That's because you're reading "For Dummies" books.

I've never met a developer who had a "For Dummies" book in his office.

Regardless, ncollette isn't learning PHP/MySQL. Of course, there's a ton of great, free online resources for both languages - not the least of which is php.net.

And a lot of books that I guarantee are superior to anything in the "For Dummies" line.

07-05-2008, 12:23	#1 (permalink)
ncollette Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2	Which language comes first? Hi everyone! I work in an ad agency that does close to zero interactive work, which has left me with little experience in web design. I have a lot of down time...not really surprising because again, we do NO web work (wtf?) so I've begun filling my time with tutorials on lynda.com. There are quite a few languages that I don't know - ajax, css, java, php, ruby, xhtml (yeah, basically all of them) - and it's hard to figure out where to start. So I guess my question is: to what extent do web designers, not programmers, need to know these languages (basic knowledge or pro level), and which language is best to start with? Thanks for helping a desperate-to-grow newbie.

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07-05-2008, 12:29	#2 (permalink)
Aibrean Art Director Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 76	css by far comes first.

07-05-2008, 12:29	#3 (permalink)
jesusfreak101 ie must die Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 491	i would start with html/css first...then move your way up the ladder into php, ajax, ruby etc. well it does actually depend on what you want, i started with css and worked up. well im still working up lol some of these other languages are crazy!

07-05-2008, 13:35	#6 (permalink)
pgo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,340	You're right about the PHP/JavaScript similarity in syntax.

07-05-2008, 13:49	#7 (permalink)
ncollette Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2	Thanks you guys. That really helped. Looks like I'm starting with CSS. pgo - I really appreciate you mentioning lynda.com is most likely outdated. I was worried about that. I'll check out HTML Dog and google some other CSS tutorial sites. Thanks again. BTW...update your blog

07-05-2008, 14:19	#8 (permalink)
LukeV Best custom title ever. Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 229	I'd have to disagree with pgo here, Lynda.com has great tutorials and they do in fact provide you with best practices. Besides the people that make the tutorials aren't the people that coded the website so that has no relation to their content. That's like saying a car salesman that drives a mini, only sells minis. I learned quite a bit of PHP from their. As for xhtml and css, I learned most of it with the help of a friend who walked me through it. He even thought me alot of PHP. I suggest you find someone who would do the same. W3Schools is a great place to find help.

07-05-2008, 16:45	#10 (permalink)
LukeV Best custom title ever. Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 229	Well pgo it all comes down to personal preference. Personally I don't like lengthy reads. I tried learning PHP through "PHP and Mysql For Dummies" and I just couldn't get things through. On the other hand I found no problem in spending 4 hours watching a video tutorial on PHP. Depends I guess.

07-05-2008, 16:56	#11 (permalink)
pgo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,340	That's because you're reading "For Dummies" books. I've never met a developer who had a "For Dummies" book in his office. Regardless, ncollette isn't learning PHP/MySQL. Of course, there's a ton of great, free online resources for both languages - not the least of which is php.net. And a lot of books that I guarantee are superior to anything in the "For Dummies" line.

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