Web Design Forums

Scuba · 16-03-2007, 01:00

Hi. I'm fairly new to the web design world, and so I'm looking for a bit of feedback on my own website (for my web design business) and for the processes I use to process prospective client's design requests.

I've started out by making sites locally in an attempt to build up my portfolio and things are going a bit slow; I don't live in a very technologically enthusiastic town. That said, I've been aiming to open myself up to the web and see if I can get some clients that way. I feel confident that I can handle the workload and pressure, but again, I'm new, so I can't really judge whether or not my business is heading in the right direction.

My website is located at

FROGFRITTERSdotNET

I'm open to any sort of feedback, but I'd really like to hear more about how I've set up the design request process, since I have absolutely no clue about how online transactions like this should go, let alone the legality. Also, if you have any advice on the writing.... I'm a terrible writer.

Thanks in advance

finbarr · 16-03-2007, 05:54

header and logo looks much like symphony, etc - not necessarily a bad thing but I think a little too much like them for you not to have been heavily influenced.

This is particularly obvious when you look at the rest of the site, as it really pales in comparison, doesnt even suit the style of the header and looks really thrown together. Surely the logo would be better sat alongside a sans serif font

It also is certainly not 'valid xhtml' (or CSS for that matter) as you proclaim. A simple source check in Firefox would have told you that. I cant imagine any client being impressed when they find out the claims made on your own site dont hold true.

Needs work, my friend... a lot of work

d*d · 16-03-2007, 06:04

leaves me cold, more work needs to be done to the general layout of the text- it looks ugly and ill concieved. As finbarr said the header is probably the best bit (and it's not great).

try doing some flat designs in photoshop or illustrator first.

in8 · 16-03-2007, 06:25

Hey Scuba,

Well done for attempting to break from the frame, grid mould! It might need a bit more work but it's a good start. You may need to try and get more balance in your layout though...

You would be better to use a gif for your logo as currently you can see it has a different colour background.

I would drop the serif font and go for the font that you used in your logo - consistency is the key!

C*D is right, maybe start planning in Photoshop and get a design that works, then you have all the images you need to put the site together.

Good luck!

Anna
In8 Website Design

Dusteh · 16-03-2007, 06:43

my rule of thumb is never take advice from people who can't anti-alias their logo.

stealthcow · 16-03-2007, 09:39

I cant think of any other profession where people would start a "business" without having any professional knowledge or experience of their chosen area. As hard as it may be to believe, web design and development is an area that requires training and experience to be good at. Doing work from your bedroom for an occasional low paying friend doesnt count as a business, its the equivalent of baby sitting or mowing someones lawn.

Scuba · 16-03-2007, 10:33

"Doing work from your bedroom for an occasional low paying friend doesnt count as a business, its the equivalent of baby sitting or mowing someones lawn."

I should've explained that, well, that's what it really is; I'm really looking for experience, clearly.

I also don't claim that it's Valid XHTML or CSS, which is why they aren't linked to validators. I put those in as filler when I do get to that point.

Thanks for the feedback, though, I'm taking it all into consideration. Keep in mind, too, that I don't have much content to work with, so I feel like that's a drawback.

finbarr · 16-03-2007, 11:45

if you dont have much content then do away with the contact page and have those details in the right hand column on every page - that'll fill things up.

And simply having the 'valid' statements on your page implies that the site is valid. If you have no intention of making it valid take the statement off.

BTW: If youre just starting off, then well done... its a good first attempt. I think changing the font to Arial (or similar) will instantly make the site look better

Scott · 16-03-2007, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by stealthcow

I cant think of any other profession where people would start a "business" without having any professional knowledge or experience of their chosen area.

well said.

babydutka · 16-03-2007, 12:36

I have to say I agree with a lot that has already been said, but in terms of the actual site, here are just a few quick thoughts:

Navigation: placing the main nav in the upper right is awkward in terms of usability and can be easily overlooked (leaving the user confused). Because the Nav is very simple (which is ok), this adds to the the likelyhood of it getting lost. So I would move it to the left side and maybe make a bit more prominent (to your own discretion).

Also, with the way you have it set-up it wouldn't be hard to make the main nav more accessible and search engine friendly. Find a tutorial on doing an image replacement navigation - this will allow you to use images but the text will remain in the code for screen readers and spiders.

Contact Page:Watch the type consistency (you switch to Times for the right column). Also, try offering the download as .PDF - although .DOC's are common to most computers, .PDF's are much more standard and personally I find them more professional.

Favicon:Ever though of making your Favicon transparent? The white box is fine if it's on a white background in the default FF address bar, but as soon as you throw a new skin or are viewing it on a tab, it looks like you'd want it to be transparent. Save it as a transparent GIF and throw it into this: http://tools.dynamicdrive.com/favicon/

All the best!
-Kyle

Scuba · 17-03-2007, 15:33

Now the site fits under W3 standards, my favicon is transparent (thanks for that link), and I've changed the homepage so that it reads "FrogFritters is a design partnership" rather than "design firm" so that there's no over-expectations.

I tried playing with the Arial font, but it simply doesn't look appealing that way. Perhaps I just like Georgia too much..

Is there anything more that you think I could do to make it look more aesthetically pleasing? My aim in the design was to make the content area more open and less constricted (i.e. in a bordered table). Another one of my aims was to make the site comprehensive and intuitive. There are a lot of design sites I come across that are absolutely beautiful, but when I think about an average user visiting it, I would imagine they would get lost/not know how to navigate it. Do you think this works well? Are there any examples I could reference to improve my design style?

Thanks again for all the feedback so far.

RaelRode · 17-03-2007, 15:58

For your text try it using this CSS

Quote:

letter-spacing: 2px;

Add that code to your CSS and it should look better.

Maerk · 17-03-2007, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusteh

my rule of thumb is never take advice from people who can't anti-alias their logo.

Heh I'd been biting my tongue about that

pgo · 17-03-2007, 17:04

Looks like the header is a combination of different "influences" - most notably serenegreen.com and the tired old "leaf logo" that appears on every other website these days.

Everything outside the logo/nav/hills doesn't even look designed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stealthcow

I cant think of any other profession where people would start a "business" without having any professional knowledge or experience of their chosen area.

Prostitution, maybe.

Of course, this is web design and development. Which is sort of prostitution. Except it takes a lot more technical knowledge and expertise.

Quote:

I put those in as filler when I do get to that point.

Case in point. Validation isn't hard. If it's something you aspire to and are "eventually" going to reach, do you think that it's worth trying to sell services you can't even render for yourself?

Not trying to discourage you, just trying to suggest that maybe you need to get some experience and expertise under your belt before you try selling people your services.

Scuba · 31-03-2007, 01:25

Trying my hand at a different style now...

frogfritters.net/pro

(all images are bmp as of now, though).

defunct · 31-03-2007, 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba

Hi. I'm fairly new to the web design world, and so I'm looking for a bit of feedback on my own website (for my web design business)

freelancr · 31-03-2007, 09:17

firstly... what the fuck are frogfritters? makes me think of deep fried frogs, which has fuck all to do with website design or development.

Contact Page:
No one is going to download a form, fill it out, and send it in. If they don't have word, or open office, they are kinda fucked from the start. Make a proper html form, and offer a printable/editable PDF for download.

Your mailto link is broken, it has a space at the start of it.

Navigation:
The bullet points look lazy, especially for the bottom left.

Logo:
The leaf logo is really nice, but what the fuck it has to do with either your company name, or what it does, is beyond me.

What we do:
Don't waffle to pad things out. Get to the point, you usually have a few seconds to grab someones attention while they quickly scan your page and head for the close tab button. Make use of the right hand side with something, like an image for each service?

Portfolio:
You only have one client in there, so do a case study and go into more depth.

16-03-2007, 01:00	#1 (permalink)
Scuba Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 6	In need of feedback for a new business Hi. I'm fairly new to the web design world, and so I'm looking for a bit of feedback on my own website (for my web design business) and for the processes I use to process prospective client's design requests. I've started out by making sites locally in an attempt to build up my portfolio and things are going a bit slow; I don't live in a very technologically enthusiastic town. That said, I've been aiming to open myself up to the web and see if I can get some clients that way. I feel confident that I can handle the workload and pressure, but again, I'm new, so I can't really judge whether or not my business is heading in the right direction. My website is located at FROGFRITTERSdotNET I'm open to any sort of feedback, but I'd really like to hear more about how I've set up the design request process, since I have absolutely no clue about how online transactions like this should go, let alone the legality. Also, if you have any advice on the writing.... I'm a terrible writer. Thanks in advance Last edited by Scuba : 16-03-2007 at 03:30.

16-03-2007, 05:54	#2 (permalink)
finbarr who the fuck am i? Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: london Posts: 2,508	header and logo looks much like symphony, etc - not necessarily a bad thing but I think a little too much like them for you not to have been heavily influenced. This is particularly obvious when you look at the rest of the site, as it really pales in comparison, doesnt even suit the style of the header and looks really thrown together. Surely the logo would be better sat alongside a sans serif font It also is certainly not 'valid xhtml' (or CSS for that matter) as you proclaim. A simple source check in Firefox would have told you that. I cant imagine any client being impressed when they find out the claims made on your own site dont hold true. Needs work, my friend... a lot of work __________________ who the fuck r u?

16-03-2007, 06:43	#5 (permalink)
Dusteh Sir digby chicken caesar Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 4,815	my rule of thumb is never take advice from people who can't anti-alias their logo. __________________ unconsolidated isoparms

16-03-2007, 11:45	#8 (permalink)
finbarr who the fuck am i? Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: london Posts: 2,508	if you dont have much content then do away with the contact page and have those details in the right hand column on every page - that'll fill things up. And simply having the 'valid' statements on your page implies that the site is valid. If you have no intention of making it valid take the statement off. BTW: If youre just starting off, then well done... its a good first attempt. I think changing the font to Arial (or similar) will instantly make the site look better __________________ who the fuck r u?

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16-03-2007, 06:04	#3 (permalink)
d*d Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bristol Posts: 3,299	leaves me cold, more work needs to be done to the general layout of the text- it looks ugly and ill concieved. As finbarr said the header is probably the best bit (and it's not great). try doing some flat designs in photoshop or illustrator first.

16-03-2007, 06:25	#4 (permalink)
in8 Anna - In8 Website Design Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 5	Hey Scuba, Well done for attempting to break from the frame, grid mould! It might need a bit more work but it's a good start. You may need to try and get more balance in your layout though... You would be better to use a gif for your logo as currently you can see it has a different colour background. I would drop the serif font and go for the font that you used in your logo - consistency is the key! C*D is right, maybe start planning in Photoshop and get a design that works, then you have all the images you need to put the site together. Good luck! Anna In8 Website Design

16-03-2007, 09:39	#6 (permalink)
stealthcow knocking heads Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,914	I cant think of any other profession where people would start a "business" without having any professional knowledge or experience of their chosen area. As hard as it may be to believe, web design and development is an area that requires training and experience to be good at. Doing work from your bedroom for an occasional low paying friend doesnt count as a business, its the equivalent of baby sitting or mowing someones lawn.

16-03-2007, 10:33	#7 (permalink)
Scuba Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 6	"Doing work from your bedroom for an occasional low paying friend doesnt count as a business, its the equivalent of baby sitting or mowing someones lawn." I should've explained that, well, that's what it really is; I'm really looking for experience, clearly. I also don't claim that it's Valid XHTML or CSS, which is why they aren't linked to validators. I put those in as filler when I do get to that point. Thanks for the feedback, though, I'm taking it all into consideration. Keep in mind, too, that I don't have much content to work with, so I feel like that's a drawback.

16-03-2007, 12:36	#10 (permalink)
babydutka what sarah said Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 203	I have to say I agree with a lot that has already been said, but in terms of the actual site, here are just a few quick thoughts: Navigation: placing the main nav in the upper right is awkward in terms of usability and can be easily overlooked (leaving the user confused). Because the Nav is very simple (which is ok), this adds to the the likelyhood of it getting lost. So I would move it to the left side and maybe make a bit more prominent (to your own discretion). Also, with the way you have it set-up it wouldn't be hard to make the main nav more accessible and search engine friendly. Find a tutorial on doing an image replacement navigation - this will allow you to use images but the text will remain in the code for screen readers and spiders. Contact Page:Watch the type consistency (you switch to Times for the right column). Also, try offering the download as .PDF - although .DOC's are common to most computers, .PDF's are much more standard and personally I find them more professional. Favicon:Ever though of making your Favicon transparent? The white box is fine if it's on a white background in the default FF address bar, but as soon as you throw a new skin or are viewing it on a tab, it looks like you'd want it to be transparent. Save it as a transparent GIF and throw it into this: http://tools.dynamicdrive.com/favicon/ All the best! -Kyle

17-03-2007, 15:33	#11 (permalink)
Scuba Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 6	Now the site fits under W3 standards, my favicon is transparent (thanks for that link), and I've changed the homepage so that it reads "FrogFritters is a design partnership" rather than "design firm" so that there's no over-expectations. I tried playing with the Arial font, but it simply doesn't look appealing that way. Perhaps I just like Georgia too much.. Is there anything more that you think I could do to make it look more aesthetically pleasing? My aim in the design was to make the content area more open and less constricted (i.e. in a bordered table). Another one of my aims was to make the site comprehensive and intuitive. There are a lot of design sites I come across that are absolutely beautiful, but when I think about an average user visiting it, I would imagine they would get lost/not know how to navigate it. Do you think this works well? Are there any examples I could reference to improve my design style? Thanks again for all the feedback so far.

31-03-2007, 01:25	#15 (permalink)
Scuba Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 6	Trying my hand at a different style now... frogfritters.net/pro (all images are bmp as of now, though).

31-03-2007, 09:17	#17 (permalink)
freelancr Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,171	firstly... what the fuck are frogfritters? makes me think of deep fried frogs, which has fuck all to do with website design or development. Contact Page: No one is going to download a form, fill it out, and send it in. If they don't have word, or open office, they are kinda fucked from the start. Make a proper html form, and offer a printable/editable PDF for download. Your mailto link is broken, it has a space at the start of it. Navigation: The bullet points look lazy, especially for the bottom left. Logo: The leaf logo is really nice, but what the fuck it has to do with either your company name, or what it does, is beyond me. What we do: Don't waffle to pad things out. Get to the point, you usually have a few seconds to grab someones attention while they quickly scan your page and head for the close tab button. Make use of the right hand side with something, like an image for each service? Portfolio: You only have one client in there, so do a case study and go into more depth.

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