[Maerk]

Hehe thanks man, more than that actually like just over 13k now, but was on 11k til a few months back. Basically its where I've first started out, and the company has had a few financial problems so my pay is still not what it should be.

When I started there I only really knew photoshop and a bit of dreamweaver, flash and some 3D, everything else I learnt on the fly. No degree either.

The company now has more designers than artworkers, and as my production skills are pretty decent I spend a lot of my time retouching and artworking, makes it pretty hard to shine too I guess.

I spoke to a nice person at Aquent who nearly had a heart attack when I told her what I thought I was worth (it was so low)

[Azeem]

Originally Posted by Maerk

Hehe thanks man, more than that actually like just over 13k now, but was on 11k til a few months back. Basically its where I've first started out, and the company has had a few financial problems so my pay is still not what it should be.

When I started there I only really knew photoshop and a bit of dreamweaver, flash and some 3D, everything else I learnt on the fly. No degree either.

The company now has more designers than artworkers, and as my production skills are pretty decent I spend a lot of my time retouching and artworking, makes it pretty hard to shine too I guess.

That's mental. If you enjoy it then fair enough, but if you knew a bit of coding you can easily get 18k+ with a regular company.

[Maerk]

Nah pretty miserable there these days, I love designing, and I'm just not getting to do much of it in work, definitely starting to look around.

Its not a web design company and I don't do coding, I like designing for the web but I need a new media coder monkey to turn my design into the real thing :P

But the Aquent person said I'm probably worth 20k as a mid-weight designer, she was probably just being incredibly nice because of however agencies get their moolah off placing someone. But still I know I'm worth plenty more than I'm on.

As narate said though, competition is very tough though, and I'm not one for huge compromise I want to do a job I enjoy really, I'd like fair pay but I'm not obsessed with the money, more than anything else I want a job where I'm passionate about it, and I used to have that where I am now.

[Mandy Moo]

Right ok then... lets clear a few things up. I realise that the mousemat is a naff idea now, i'll concentrate on a form of mailer that I can make myself which will be unique and passed around the office. It might not have a long shelf life as a mousemat but perhaps it'll get me noticed.

The web design bit is purely a way to display my portfolio... it won't hurt to learn abit but it's difficult when I'm in full time work.

Here's the bit that sums up my experience and design. I currently work as a Designer for a Newspaper Group so it's pretty much press advertising although I have done billboards and in house design for them. It is still my first job after uni and I have been there for 3 years. As for whether I'm a good designer... I think I am, I was one of the lucky ones to exhibit my degree work at D&AD New Blood. I'll have to try post some of my designs on so you can tell me if I'm up to scratch.

As for £12k, it's fine for a great opportunity but I do have a mortgage.

[Maerk]

That's all clear enough then, if you have three years experience working as a designer, 12k is definitely a not flattering offer, would just stick with it applying and pestering, it's pretty quiet job wise at the moment but seems to be picking up around now a bit into the new year i think agencies are starting to look for new talent (I hope hehe)

[Mandy Moo]

Maerk,
Looking at your profile, you're only a year or so older than me, we're both on around the same salary at the moment... are we really considered Middleweight? You might have more experience than me but I'm not sure 3 years in a Newspaper Publisher means I can go for middleweight at a design agency?

[Maerk]

Well I'm not considered it by where I work lol

We definitely should be aiming for mid-weight, the conversations I've had with people I work with, with freelancers and at a job agency basically told me off (she said that a junior is anyone between none and 12 months experience really), I'm so used to considering myself a junior, I was inevitably thinking of myself in those terms, suppose it varies in all cases there's no set rules to it. Middle weight is anything between 3 years and 5 or 6 I think.

Middle weight really just means you're used to working and have got your shit together, I'm probably at the lower end of mid-weight but definitely not junior anymore.

And put this way, you probably won't find many junior positions outside of london that's more than 12k (and that's only to offset the cost of living I think, but london designers feel free to say I'm full of shit, I've not done much research into London as well, I like manchester.)

The whole junior/mid-weight/senior is a bit crap and basic. But it's what we have to work with lol

edit -
seems I'm wrong, now mad.co.uk finally started working its shown up quite a few design jobs there's a junior job thats 15k-18k seems kind of odd for a junior position.

[Maerk]

Instead of hitting edit a dozen times I'll just post again hehe

I only have 3 years experience too, I started design a bit later than if I'd taken a degree and dived right in, spent a bit of time working out what exactly it is I want to do.

Not sure what range of work you'd have covered working for a newspaper publisher, but if your work is solid and you have the skills and time is put in you should be looking at more than an entry level position someplace I would have thought. Would speak to some of the job agencies see what they say about your work and skill level, I found someone at Aquent ridiculously helpful (though they havent found me anything yet grrr)

[Mandy Moo]

I went for a job interview last Wednesday and they've invited me back to spend half a day with them which I did today. It's a Mac Operator/Graphic Designer position, it involves packaging design for the pharmaceutical and healthcare industry. Sounds a bit boring, I know but it is £16k and I can add packaging design to my experience. I think if I get offered it I might accept it and do it for a year or so.

Does anyone else feel like a time bomb? I feel I'm not getting where I want to be fast enough. I'm still young now but I'm not going to stay this age forever, design agencies are always scouting for new talent.

[lucidcreations]

I'm kinda with you guys, but a few years on. I've got no degree, but started web and print design in 1998.

I run the design and marketing for a development and design house in Stoke on Trent. I have a junior designer working with me and a team of code monkeys. I deal with projects from pitch to publication and I'm only on mid twenties, which is quite good for around this way. I guess I'm classed as a Senior designer, but I personally feel like a middle weight.

I've not really seen any adds for Manchester way either, but I'm thinking about ploughing straight into freelance now because I want to earn more and fancy being my own boss for a change.

[Alexanda]

They dont advertise round Manchester as they don't need to, just send a mailshot out.

[djeglin]

Mandy, and many of the other people on this thread, really...

At the end of the day, I'm afraid that half of it is purely down to being in the right place at the right time. A couple of years ago I was woking for a small company for not very much (less than I, or the job, deserved). So I decided to take a risk and leave. I went freelance for about a year, and didnt earn much money. Luckily I have good friends who could bail me out when I needed it, and almost everyone was very supportive, and understood why I was doing what I was doing.

Then, in October last year I got a phone call from a recruitment agency that had noticed my CV in relation to a job they had on their books. Turned out the job was with a very large company, not a design agency. I went for my 2 interviews and I've now been working for them for 5 months happily, and I'm earning pretty much double what I was before. Not only that, but the position bumps me up to where I thought I should be in my career progression in a year or two - Which is the senior designer sort of level.

Its important to make sure you cover every possible option for where job offers could come from. Make sure your CV is on every job site out there (at least the major ones and the cerative specific ones... Creativepool is pretty good), because even if you don't notice any jobs on the sites that interest you, remember that recruiters use those sites to search for candidates!

Wilst I agree that its good to have a wide skill base (I've been lucky enough to manage to cram web design, print design, and motion graphics into my career so far), there is something to be said for being very, very good at one or two things. Be very aware of your strengths and weaknesses - This will enable you to improve yourself in the areas you feel you need to, and for your CV and interview technique, it will help you emphasise your strong points. Most interviewers will ask where you think you could improve your skills - Be honest. They like to see that you can appraise your development fairly.

On a final note, £12k is too little. Flat. £14k at least for any kind of creative position, unless they are looking for school leavers still living with their parents lol.