Web Design Forums

OriginalDisco · 04-04-2006, 08:24

Hi, I'm pretty new to this Board, so howdy!

Anyway... I've got a quick question, any help appreciated.

If you've produced a design for a Client, do you ever give them the original files, i.e. the PSDs, so that they can do what they like with them after your part is done and you've been paid?

Cheers...

imgoingout · 04-04-2006, 08:41

technicaly, yes you should give the original files, since the client is paying for them also, but you could keep a copy, just in case...

noggin · 04-04-2006, 08:47

there's no right answer - this is something you should agree with the client beforehand, and charge them for, after all giving them the source files is potentially losing future work for yourself.

i never give my clients original files unless they are willing to pay for them, particularly for Flash work because there is often code in there that was developed before their project came along and which they don't own

cheers
dAN

OriginalDisco · 04-04-2006, 08:59

Well, it's something of a dicussion in our office.

A couple of people say that since they've paid us for the designs (a corporate folder and 4pp A4 insert), they already own all files included in those designs, but as far as I know there's nothing in our original proposal that states "after payment original files will be transferred to Client".

Basically they want the PSD of the my cover design, so they can manipulate it themselves, or I imagine hand it on to someone else at a later date to use.

I think we should be charging for handing over source files (if I'm right in thinking that there's nothing about it in the contract), but everyone else seems to disagree.

Not just being greedy, am I?

noggin · 04-04-2006, 09:10

i think you're right - you should charge them extra

having said that it also depends on how happy you want to keep them - to protect future business it might be simpler to just give them the files in this case and make sure that next time source-file ownership is clearly stated in the contract / terms

dAN

mike_m · 04-04-2006, 09:41

yup, we make a point in our contract that the client is paying for the finished and assembled work in it it's final incarnation. Any work and processes that lead up to that finished work are our property and intellectual copyright of all work belongs to us.

If they want it they can pay for it, or if it's a small job, you can give it to them, but not sign it away if you want to keep them happy. Although as was said you have to be careful, with stuff that you are going to re-use etc.

Dusteh · 04-04-2006, 14:27

Does a professional photographer give you the negatives? I think it should be an extra charge. It depends how much future work you think they will give you, just flatten a few of those layers first to make their life harder if you have to give the PSDs over. They can never prove that that little text layer was once vector. mwhahahaha!

OriginalDisco · 05-04-2006, 05:12

Okay, so are there any online resources that have example design contracts?

Basically, I'm in an in-house studio in a marketing agency (and why I'm still working here God only knows) and although our boss is trying to generate more chargeable work through design, she's overlooking stuff like this on a regular basis, and doesn't seem to want to listen to me when I'm telling her we're selling our design far too cheaply.

At least if I have some proper examples rather than what she assumes is simply my opinion then I'll be taken a bit more notice of.

Oh, and Dusteh, I like your thinking... I'm off to flatten some of them layers as we speak!

d*d · 05-04-2006, 05:42

I don't give over source files, they are my Intellectual property - wether PSD or PHP. I can negotiate depending on the project but what the clients pay for are the finished articles.

finbarr · 05-04-2006, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by d*d

I don't give over source files, they are my Intellectual property - wether PSD or PHP. I can negotiate depending on the project but what the clients pay for are the finished articles.

my thoughts precisely... I'm willing to hand over everything if its all been mentioned beforehand and negotiated on that principle but otherwise...

pedge · 05-04-2006, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by d*d

I don't give over source files, they are my Intellectual property - wether PSD or PHP. I can negotiate depending on the project but what the clients pay for are the finished articles.

Ditto. Its what they see on the printed page that they get, not what worked up to it.

If they're really after a PSD and you want to keep them sweet, just flatten most of the layers (esp effects & adjustment layers). If they come back on the bounce, just say that to keep all the layers would bloat the filesize, hence making it longer for you to work on so you just flatten them as you go along to keep *their* costs down. You're not lying, it does bloat the size, just depends what rez you're working at.

OriginalDisco · 06-04-2006, 05:52

Well, I've managed to talk my account handler round, I told her I was very uncomfortable about simply handing over my piece of artwork that was used as part of an overall design.

What they asked for was an EPS of the front cover design and our account handler told them we'd send them PhotoShop files. So that's what I've ended up doing.

PhotoShop files... Flattened PhotoShop files. No layers, not one.

Dusteh · 06-04-2006, 05:57

EPS is fine, they wouldn't be able to do much with that. I would have ignored the account handler and sent them the EPS they requested = happier client and you haven't given up the source stuff.

noggin · 06-04-2006, 05:59

Quote:

No layers, not one

surely one at least!

A. Pedant

OriginalDisco · 06-04-2006, 07:37

Well, yes, one... A locked background layer. D'oh.

With the way the Client has pissed about so far, once they were offered PSDs after asking for EPSs I didn't want to go through the trouble of offering them sort-of what they asked for in the first place.

I'm lazy like that.

OriginalDisco · 10-04-2006, 07:34

Well, despite what I've tried to explain to our boss, she's come out with the same spiel as she did earlier.

"I've been buying design for 25 years, and I've always been given the source files. If you didn't give them to the Client you'd never get any work from them ever again. We need to send them the Illustrator files, all layered PhotoShop files and the InDesign files as well."

So, not only are these people now getting my PSD artwork done specifically for a front cover that they can rip apart and re-organise, bastardise, etc any way they like, but they are now getting the InDesign files. So they can tear the entire layout and style apart as well and replace all of our company's copy at the drop of a hat.

Nice.

sub · 10-04-2006, 07:43

That's you're boss' choice, be it a bad one or not.
The fact that I disagreed with some of the decisions my previous superiors made is one of the main reasons I started my own company. If you feel that strongly about your artwork I would suggest moving on.

OriginalDisco · 10-04-2006, 07:59

Well, moving on is underway at the mo' to be honest. I've been a bit sick of things here for a while.

stickmus · 10-04-2006, 09:40

Have these people not heard of PDF?

04-04-2006, 08:24	#1 (permalink)
OriginalDisco The Fusion Minstrel Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: York Posts: 447	Original Files Question Hi, I'm pretty new to this Board, so howdy! Anyway... I've got a quick question, any help appreciated. If you've produced a design for a Client, do you ever give them the original files, i.e. the PSDs, so that they can do what they like with them after your part is done and you've been paid? Cheers...

04-04-2006, 09:41	#6 (permalink)
mike_m Work faster microphone .. Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Dubai Posts: 1,737	yup, we make a point in our contract that the client is paying for the finished and assembled work in it it's final incarnation. Any work and processes that lead up to that finished work are our property and intellectual copyright of all work belongs to us. If they want it they can pay for it, or if it's a small job, you can give it to them, but not sign it away if you want to keep them happy. Although as was said you have to be careful, with stuff that you are going to re-use etc. __________________

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04-04-2006, 08:41	#2 (permalink)
imgoingout portuguese noob Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 27	technicaly, yes you should give the original files, since the client is paying for them also, but you could keep a copy, just in case...

04-04-2006, 08:47	#3 (permalink)
noggin chevette Join Date: May 2004 Location: london Posts: 415	there's no right answer - this is something you should agree with the client beforehand, and charge them for, after all giving them the source files is potentially losing future work for yourself. i never give my clients original files unless they are willing to pay for them, particularly for Flash work because there is often code in there that was developed before their project came along and which they don't own cheers dAN

04-04-2006, 08:59	#4 (permalink)
OriginalDisco The Fusion Minstrel Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: York Posts: 447	Well, it's something of a dicussion in our office. A couple of people say that since they've paid us for the designs (a corporate folder and 4pp A4 insert), they already own all files included in those designs, but as far as I know there's nothing in our original proposal that states "after payment original files will be transferred to Client". Basically they want the PSD of the my cover design, so they can manipulate it themselves, or I imagine hand it on to someone else at a later date to use. I think we should be charging for handing over source files (if I'm right in thinking that there's nothing about it in the contract), but everyone else seems to disagree. Not just being greedy, am I?

04-04-2006, 09:10	#5 (permalink)
noggin chevette Join Date: May 2004 Location: london Posts: 415	i think you're right - you should charge them extra having said that it also depends on how happy you want to keep them - to protect future business it might be simpler to just give them the files in this case and make sure that next time source-file ownership is clearly stated in the contract / terms dAN

04-04-2006, 14:27	#7 (permalink)
Dusteh Sir digby chicken caesar Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 5,295	Does a professional photographer give you the negatives? I think it should be an extra charge. It depends how much future work you think they will give you, just flatten a few of those layers first to make their life harder if you have to give the PSDs over. They can never prove that that little text layer was once vector. mwhahahaha!

05-04-2006, 05:12	#8 (permalink)
OriginalDisco The Fusion Minstrel Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: York Posts: 447	Okay, so are there any online resources that have example design contracts? Basically, I'm in an in-house studio in a marketing agency (and why I'm still working here God only knows) and although our boss is trying to generate more chargeable work through design, she's overlooking stuff like this on a regular basis, and doesn't seem to want to listen to me when I'm telling her we're selling our design far too cheaply. At least if I have some proper examples rather than what she assumes is simply my opinion then I'll be taken a bit more notice of. Oh, and Dusteh, I like your thinking... I'm off to flatten some of them layers as we speak!

05-04-2006, 05:42	#9 (permalink)
d*d Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bristol Posts: 3,394	I don't give over source files, they are my Intellectual property - wether PSD or PHP. I can negotiate depending on the project but what the clients pay for are the finished articles.

06-04-2006, 05:52	#12 (permalink)
OriginalDisco The Fusion Minstrel Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: York Posts: 447	Well, I've managed to talk my account handler round, I told her I was very uncomfortable about simply handing over my piece of artwork that was used as part of an overall design. What they asked for was an EPS of the front cover design and our account handler told them we'd send them PhotoShop files. So that's what I've ended up doing. PhotoShop files... Flattened PhotoShop files. No layers, not one.

06-04-2006, 05:57	#13 (permalink)
Dusteh Sir digby chicken caesar Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 5,295	EPS is fine, they wouldn't be able to do much with that. I would have ignored the account handler and sent them the EPS they requested = happier client and you haven't given up the source stuff.

06-04-2006, 07:37	#15 (permalink)
OriginalDisco The Fusion Minstrel Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: York Posts: 447	Well, yes, one... A locked background layer. D'oh. With the way the Client has pissed about so far, once they were offered PSDs after asking for EPSs I didn't want to go through the trouble of offering them sort-of what they asked for in the first place. I'm lazy like that.

10-04-2006, 07:34	#16 (permalink)
OriginalDisco The Fusion Minstrel Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: York Posts: 447	Well, despite what I've tried to explain to our boss, she's come out with the same spiel as she did earlier. "I've been buying design for 25 years, and I've always been given the source files. If you didn't give them to the Client you'd never get any work from them ever again. We need to send them the Illustrator files, all layered PhotoShop files and the InDesign files as well." So, not only are these people now getting my PSD artwork done specifically for a front cover that they can rip apart and re-organise, bastardise, etc any way they like, but they are now getting the InDesign files. So they can tear the entire layout and style apart as well and replace all of our company's copy at the drop of a hat. Nice.

10-04-2006, 07:43	#17 (permalink)
sub Shitcasket™ Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Brighton Posts: 4,722	That's you're boss' choice, be it a bad one or not. The fact that I disagreed with some of the decisions my previous superiors made is one of the main reasons I started my own company. If you feel that strongly about your artwork I would suggest moving on.

10-04-2006, 07:59	#18 (permalink)
OriginalDisco The Fusion Minstrel Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: York Posts: 447	Well, moving on is underway at the mo' to be honest. I've been a bit sick of things here for a while.

10-04-2006, 09:40	#19 (permalink)
stickmus hmmm... Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Yorkuk Posts: 2,127	Have these people not heard of PDF?

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