[pali]

Hi all,

Looking for some much needed advice. I am primarily a web/digital designer and as such use pretty much the entire Adobe cs3 suite, including premier and after effects as well as 3ds max. With that in mind, I am on the look out for a new machine (just the base). My budget is around £1000.

So far I have spoken to Dell, Mesh and Commodore about customising my machine and what I should be looking at.

This is what Commodore have offered:

Processor

Intel Core2 Quad Q9550, (2,83GHz, 1333FSB, 12MB, Quad Core)

Motherboard
Asus P5N-D (NVIDIA nForce 750i)

Operating System

(English) genuine Windows Vista™ Business SP1
Upgrade to Windows Vista Ultimate adds £25.00

Memory

4GB DDR2 800 Dual Channel Memory (2x2GB)


Hard Drives

250GB (7,200 rpm) SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive 8MB Cache
I would advise to also use a Raptor HDD (10,000 RPM hdd for the SWAP file to use in CS3 suite, this really speeds up the application) adds £170.49

Optical Drives

16X DVD+/-RW

Graphics Card

512MB PCIe x16 NVIDIA GeForce 8800GT, Dual Monitor DVI or VGA Graphics Card

Services2Yr Pickup and return
----------------

Where as Dell have got the Precision t7400:

Processor
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Intel Xeon E5420 (2.50GHz,1333FSB,2x6MB,Quad Core)

Operating System
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(English) genuine Windows Vista® Business SP1 WITH Media

Memory
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4GB DDR2 667 Quad Channel FBD Memory (4x1GB)

Hard Drives
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160GB (7,200 rpm) SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive with NCQ and 8MB DataBurst Cache™

Optical Drives
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16X DVD+/-RW

Graphics Card
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512MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro FX 1700 (MRGA14L), Dual Monitor DVI or VGA Graphics Card

Services
3Yr Basic Warranty - Next Business Day

-------------------

Any of you knowledgable folk have any words of wisdom? Or perhaps first hand experience of using a machine which you'd highly recommend for the same purposes?

Any help is massively appreciated

Thanks

[Do Gooder]

i am mainly mac boy so not up on PC giblets

kid in a candy shop - looks like either would do the job, so it comes down to brand really i guess.

For a bit of future proofing, perhaps look at the ram ceiling.. my 5 year old mac is still soldiering on mainly because i can put 8 gig of ram in it.

sod it. buy the one that looks least like a air conditioning unit. you'll be fine.

[pali]

thanks for the feedback. The dell precision will go up to 32gb of ram! The commodore will do 8gb. But to be honest a 32 op system will only see 3gb anyway. 8 gb will be more than sufficient with the configuration given.

Have you seen the commodores? they come with cool ckins (pronounced skins, go figure?!).
Commodore Gaming webshop

[Do Gooder]

nice idea for a case. could do with better than game art on there... but I guess it is the main market.

{EDIT oh-there's loads of other cases.. not just gaming ones.
haha.. "high brow art". charming name for a section... with some awful looking stuff}

32gb.. I'd go for the dell then... but I tend to milk computers for a while. If you upgrade every few years, it doesn't matter.

[Samione]

Both look good enough for what you need, unless you're using 3dsmax for very render intensive purposes you should be more than fine. Max is the only app that will use the four cores anyway, no adobe app that I know of does, since adobe apps are only 32-bit this also means they can only address 4GB of ram. The dell offering does look better, only because it has a Quadro instead of a GeForce graphics card. Quadro's are aimed at 3D App users and as such use a different API (openGL) so are usually faster/better with viewport rendering, the card won't effect your render times though. Oh and also, there's no way you can survive on a 160-250GB HDD is there? Unless you're planning on using it as a primary HDD just to store windows and your apps on, with a secondary much larger driver for projects/files.

I'd personally never buy a pre-built machine, it's much much cheaper to build yourself and you can tailor your system to meet your needs exactly; however I wouldn't recommend it if you haven't built a PC before. If you are prepared to go with this option then you should check out Overclockers UK.

Just to give you an idea, for 875 squid, you could build a better system than any of the previously mentioned. Specs are;

Q9450 @ 2.66GHZ
ATI 4850 1024MB
8GB DDR2 PC-6400
250GB SATA HDD
1TB SATA HDD
2x Dual Layer DVD drives

[Do Gooder]

For the Adobe stuff... is that 4gb per app - or machine?

Also note. CS4 will probably have 64bit frills - rumours have it out Oct 08 - Mar 09.

[Samione]

4GB per app. You also MUST have a 64-bit OS for it to recognised the full 4GB, if you have a 32-bit OS it'll only recognise 3.2 or somewhere thereabouts. This includes Vram (graphics card). So if you have 4GB and a 512MB graphics card with a 32-bit OS you'd essentially have over 1GB of unusable ram.

[Do Gooder]

Righty. jus wondering!

I want a new computer. It's not fair.

[pali]

Originally Posted by Samione

4GB per app. You also MUST have a 64-bit OS for it to recognised the full 4GB, if you have a 32-bit OS it'll only recognise 3.2 or somewhere thereabouts. This includes Vram (graphics card). So if you have 4GB and a 512MB graphics card with a 32-bit OS you'd essentially have over 1GB of unusable ram.

Thanks Samione. Would it not be more sensible right now to stick with the 32 bit op system as the 64 bit op system has compatibility issues? I guess you can always upgrade later when need be?

[Samione]

I've been running vista x64 for a year and have had no compatability issues so far. Everyone bashes vista but to be honest i've not had one bluescreen in a year, no real problems come to mind either. You can rest assured that any adobe/autodesk app will work on vista x64.

[pali]

Originally Posted by Samione

Both look good enough for what you need, unless you're using 3dsmax for very render intensive purposes you should be more than fine. Max is the only app that will use the four cores anyway, no adobe app that I know of does, since adobe apps are only 32-bit this also means they can only address 4GB of ram. The dell offering does look better, only because it has a Quadro instead of a GeForce graphics card. Quadro's are aimed at 3D App users and as such use a different API (openGL) so are usually faster/better with viewport rendering, the card won't effect your render times though. Oh and also, there's no way you can survive on a 160-250GB HDD is there? Unless you're planning on using it as a primary HDD just to store windows and your apps on, with a secondary much larger driver for projects/files.

I'd personally never buy a pre-built machine, it's much much cheaper to build yourself and you can tailor your system to meet your needs exactly; however I wouldn't recommend it if you haven't built a PC before. If you are prepared to go with this option then you should check out Overclockers UK.

Just to give you an idea, for 875 squid, you could build a better system than any of the previously mentioned. Specs are;

Q9450 @ 2.66GHZ
ATI 4850 1024MB
8GB DDR2 PC-6400
250GB SATA HDD
1TB SATA HDD
2x Dual Layer DVD drives

Wow sounds a pretty beasty machine. However does that include motherboard, psu, operating system etc... or are you just highlighting the main specs?

I dont think I would be entirely confident in putting a machine together whilst I understand the gist of it and how components work, I would prefer to rely on OEMs to put together a machine and then whack on a 2/3 year warranty.

I have an additional 500gb (7200rpm) hdd which i can add as a secondary drive and also a 320gb hdd which i was thinking of using as a scratch disk.

[Samione]

Yep it includes everything. 620 watt corsair PSU, P45 Gigabyte mobo and case etc. My first build was pretty nightmareish, that was with the help of a friend who had built a PC before. I think consulting the manuals first and common sense would have made it easier though. The warranty you get with OEMs is also a big plus, but does the warranty allow you to upgrade parts of the machine?

[CharmingMan]

putting together a computer is dead simple

you need to be cautious when selecting components though to make sure they will be compatable and will fit correctly in yor machine

a good shop like overclockers will give you advice on this tho.

also if you buy decent components you will get a warranty on the part itself. for instance my powersupply has a 4 yr guarentee on it

you should go for it, building pc is good fun

[Samione]

Yeah, PC compoments usually come with very long warranties (my HDD's have 10yr warranties, RAM - lifetime, CPU - 3yr, GFX 5yr...) however I don't think you'd get the same turnaround time from failure to replacement/repair as you would with dell.

Also, the overclockers forums would basically guide you through the entire process of building a PC. From spec check and making sure everything fits in the case/compatible to assembling the thing. You can get cases with screwless installation to make it even easier, that's what I did.

[CharmingMan]

this is a nice case

Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, Digital Cameras and more!

all the internals are really well thought out

this is the one i have

Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, Digital Cameras and more!

im well chuffed with it, the finish is really sweet

[Samione]

Looks like a black mac pro tower case, nice. I got a shitty NZXT lexa classic. Build quality is poor, good size though, fits an 8800 and 3rd party cooling with 3 internal fans already on it.

[pali]

Originally Posted by CharmingMan

putting together a computer is dead simple

you need to be cautious when selecting components though to make sure they will be compatable and will fit correctly in yor machine

a good shop like overclockers will give you advice on this tho.

also if you buy decent components you will get a warranty on the part itself. for instance my powersupply has a 4 yr guarentee on it

you should go for it, building pc is good fun

So what would be your typical procedure when it come to a fresh build.

I would hazard a guess at:

1) List what you need your machine to do
2) Find the processor you want
3) From which you choose your motherboard
4) Look at what you need from your graphics card before purchasing
5) RAM and HDD etc fall into place as you decide what you need

??

[CharmingMan]

yeah thats basicallly it, not much of a science to it.

you should be able to buy wicked rig on your budget though - super quick

i built mine about a year ago and shits all over the mac i use at work.

select your components by checking out the reviews on new egg, that way you can identify any shortcomings of the product and whther other people have had any difficulties

generally i would say dont skimp the cost of the components better to spend say 100 on decent power supply than get a crappy one that fails

also take into account what cooling you need, and that will determine to an extent what case you go for, the better fans have massive heatsinks on them so you need a fairly roomy case to fit them.

my case is actually quite small so i ended up getting a low profile fan which is good and effective but wouldnt be sufficient if i was thinking about doing any overclocking

[pali]

Ok so I've taken on board everyone's help, for which I thank you, but I have decided to buy either the Commodore or Dell.

Its simply come down to this for me.

The Commodore has a better processor. The Dell has a better graphics card.

I am leaning towards the commodore because I think whilst doing 3d work, the quadro in the dell will handle better in the viewport as you guys pointed out. For what I want to do, I think the GeForce 8800GT shouldnt struggle too much, and when it comes to rendering it will be the CPU and memory which comes into play, for which the Commodore (which i will set up a raptor 10000rpm scratch disk) should come into its own.

For video editing and after effects the greater cpu power would be more beneficial to me.

Any additional thoughts before I blow my money?!

[pali]

Sorry to start a new thread (but i thought it might be apt for other people who may search in the future).

I have the choice of 2 specs, one which offers a more powerful Intel Core2 Quad Q9550 (2,83GHz, 1333FSB, 12MB, Quad Core) and the other a Intel Xeon E5420 (2.50GHz,1333FSB,2x6MB,Quad Core).

The machine with the more powerful processor has a 512MB PCIe x16 NVIDIA GeForce 8800GT, Dual Monitor DVI or VGA Graphics Card (gaming) card, whereas the other offers the 512MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro FX 1700 .

I am primarily use pretty much most of the adobe cs3 packages including premiere and after effects. But I also do some 3dwork using 3dsmax and would like to learn Maya.

My question is what should take more priority? I know the Quadro is better in 3d packages, however the other machine has a more powerful cpu to power through rendering.