[niggle]

I'm sorry your experience with freelancers has been so poor, you seem determined to use that tar brush for all other freelancers, the 'take the money and run' implication that you have for the freelance work model wouldn't be a sustainable one as you'd run out of clients - I suggest you look at how at how your agency is resourcing external help

You don't need to apologise for other freelancers, d*d. I'm sure you're as professional and skilled as I am, or at least I'm prepared to assume so unless you choose to prove otherwise.

As for sourcing external help, we don't anymore. Of eleven freelancers we hired through agencies and word of mouth recommendation not one was able to do the work put in front of them, and every single one demanded that they be paid nonetheless.

So I don't outsource anymore, we just say no. I've turned away four and a half grand of work already this week.

I hope that maybe I might find some freelancers here who would be able to change my mind on this issue. I might have offered some of this weeks' surplus around but I don't know folks here well enough to judge who might be capable. Still, in time who knows?

[d*d]

You should never turn away work, if you don't trust freelancers then look for a smaller (competent) agency to farm the work out to. What is so difficult about the work you do that a succession of 11 recommended freelancers failed, was it technical incapability or something more esoteric - it may be that you aren't briefing correctly

Originally Posted by niggle

I hope that maybe I might find some freelancers here who would be able to change my mind on this issue.

You've opened the floodgates to a host of PM's from every indian design company and 14 year old bedroom designer who visit here with that one

[Coops]

Fucking hell Niggle, you really are an intolerable, arrogant, smug, know-it-all cunt aren't you?

'Ooh, I've turned away four and a half grand of work already this month.'

Nobody is impressed with the tales you spin on an internet forum. You do realise that don't you?

[Hunch]

The point is niggle, that you strut around this forum like you are some kind of big shot design guru who can tell the rest of us mere mortals how the industry works. We're all wrong, and you're right. The fact that you attacked me over the fact that I think I "know it all" is frankly mind-boggling when you come across as an arrogant prick who accepts no one else's opinion except your own.

The weird thing though, is that absolutely everyone I've ever met in this industry who has genuine talent, or genuine authority, doesn't sound like you at all. They have nothing to prove and they don't chase around web forums looking to bestow the benefit of their mighty intellect on us. In fact almost without exception, the people I most admire in design rarely consider their own opinion to be any more important than anyone else's.

Generally it's the junior pissants; the 'little hitlers' that have a teaspoon full of power, that are so keen to rub their status in everyone's face. Just like you like to hark on about your experience, who you work with, what you work on, who you hire and fire.

You're either one of the industries great undiscovered wankers, or a complete nobody who was starved of attention when you were a kid. My money is on the latter.

[Dusteh]

Hes branded BP. That narrows him down to an employee of Landor Associates, or a liar.

I know which one I'm going with.

[Coops]

I'm with Hunch. Real talents have nothing to prove.

However I must point out that, although your grammar is usually impeccable Mr Hunch, I have noticed a slight error in this sentence.

Originally Posted by Hunch

You're either one of the industries great undiscovered wankers, or a complete nobody who was starved of attention when you were a kid. My money is on the latter.

[niggle]

You should never turn away work

Why not? We've got more than enough to keep us all going. Taking on more would just put the staff under pressure and possibly mean they'd have to work extra hours, which is totally unacceptable to me.

What is so difficult about the work you do that a succession of 11 recommended freelancers failed, was it technical incapability or something more esoteric

I'd say about half just lied about what skills they had and obviously tried to learn as they went along, particularly those I asked to do Flash work. Of the rest, some produced systems that just didn't meet the functional spec or even come close, some produced creative work of such low quality that I had to restart from scratch, one tried to hold us to ransom by refusing to deliver the goods until we doubled his fee and one went on holiday for three weeks over the deadline then hired a lawyer to try to get his money out of us.

Maybe the freelancers here are not like that. I hope not. But with a 100% failure rate I'd have to be very, very stupid to try the same thing again.

[d*d]

Originally Posted by Hunch

You're either one of the industries great undiscovered wankers, or a complete nobody who was starved of attention when you were a kid.

or just enjoys winding you up

[niggle]

Hes branded BP. That narrows him down to an employee of Landor Associates, or a liar.

Er, BP have a lot more than one logo and a lot more than one agency working for them - in fact all their assets retain their own creatives while group retains an agency in an oversight role.

[niggle]

We're all wrong, and you're right.

Some people here have made good and interesting points and come across as reliable, professional and knowlegeable.

It's just that you're not one of them.

[d*d]

Originally Posted by niggle

Why not? We've got more than enough to keep us all going. Taking on more would just put the staff under pressure and possibly mean they'd have to work extra hours, which is totally unacceptable to me.

I didn't suggest you do it in-house, read my post

Originally Posted by niggle

I'd say about half just lied about what skills they had and obviously tried to learn as they went along, particularly those I asked to do Flash work. Of the rest, some produced systems that just didn't meet the functional spec or even come close, some produced creative work of such low quality that I had to restart from scratch, one tried to hold us to ransom by refusing to deliver the goods until we doubled his fee and one went on holiday for three weeks over the deadline then hired a lawyer to try to get his money out of us.

Ha ha sounds like your company is a joy to work with, the lessons you should take with you aren't to not use freelance help but to look at how your resourcing and managing it

[niggle]

the lessons you should take with you aren't to not use freelance help but to look at how your resourcing and managing it

Maybe so.

We provided a full brief in person in each case and a complete functional specification, a list of expected deliverables with a cost breakdown and stepped deadlines. All of the appointed developers and designers agreed to everything and signed on the dotted line, but none of them subsequently produced what they were asked to.

You could be right, maybe we're making some serious mistakes - what would you have done differently?

[Hunch]

Originally Posted by Coops

I'm with Hunch. Real talents have nothing to prove.

However I must point out that, although your grammar is usually impeccable Mr Hunch, I have noticed a slight error in this sentence.

Oh bloody hell. Hands in the air. It's a fair cop.

[Coops]

Originally Posted by Hunch

Oh bloody hell. Hands in the air. It's a fair cop.

No worries - I'll let you off this time!

[Hunch]

Originally Posted by niggle

Some people here have made good and interesting points and come across as reliable, professional and knowlegeable.

It's just that you're not one of them.

Bit rich coming from a one-trick-pony who seems incapable of contributing much beyond telling everyone how great they are. Unlike you, I don't feel the need to keep informing everyone of why I'm better than them.

But, that aside, to be honest, I'd take being insulted by you as a badge of honour. The only thing I'd agree with you about is that a lot of the people on here are more knowledgeable and talented than me. That's why I come here.

[d*d]

Originally Posted by niggle

We provided a full brief in person in each case and a complete functional specification, a list of expected deliverables with a cost breakdown and stepped deadlines. All of the appointed developers and designers agreed to everything and signed on the dotted line, but none of them subsequently produced what they were asked to.

You could be right, maybe we're making some serious mistakes - what would you have done differently?

That process seems fine, was there any dialouge between you and the freelancers as the jobs progressed, any checks to ensure that briefs had been understood correctly and the work was of sufficient quality or were they working in isolation until the end of the job.

I'm assuming you get samples of previous work/references off these people

[niggle]

That process seems fine, was there any dialouge between you and the freelancers as the jobs progressed, any checks to ensure that briefs had been understood correctly and the work was of sufficient quality or were they working in isolation until the end of the job.

I've generally expected freelancers to be self-motivated and get in touch if they have any issues. Some have, some haven't. Usually we don't have time for much hand-holding and at the rates we paid we didn't think we should have to do much.

Was that a mistake do you think?

[niggle]

I'm assuming you get samples of previous work/references off these people

Well yeah, of course. Ironically the worst we ever had came from an "approved" agency who said they had vetted her.

[d*d]

Originally Posted by niggle

I've generally expected freelancers to be self-motivated and get in touch if they have any issues. Some have, some haven't. Usually we don't have time for much hand-holding and at the rates we paid we didn't think we should have to do much.

Was that a mistake do you think?

I'm not talking about hand-holding, I'm talking about communication - especially if it' s the first time you are using someone, don't trust agencies blindly they get paid whatever.

[Coops]

I love it when threads get hijacked. I reckon we should start a new 'open' thread, where we can basically just have a massive argument about anything we fancy.