Web Design Forums

gwx · 06-12-2003, 08:41

What browsers do not support PNGs yet? I know from experience that NN7, NN6 and IE6 support PNGs..

What about the other browsers? Do they support PNGs and one of their key features which I am about to use to design a portfolio site - 254 levels of transparency?

Before referring me to alistapart.com,

From alistapart.com

Quote:

"Which is a shame, because PNG makes GIF look pretty pathetic: it supports gamma correction, (sometimes) smaller file sizes, loss-less compression, up to 48-bit color, and, best of all, true alpha transparency."

Quote:

"It turns out that most of the latest versions of the major browsers fully support alpha transparency with PNG – namely, Netscape 6, Opera 6, and recently-released Mozilla 1, all on Windows; and, for the Mac, Internet Explorer 5, Netscape 6, Opera 5, Mozilla 1, OmniWeb 3.1, and ICab 1.9. Incredibly, PNG even works on Opera 6 for Linux, on WebTV, and on Sega Dreamcast."

I've tried it in mozilla in linux and it works perfect. Not tried it with opera and netscape 6 though. I am definite it works in netscape 7 ( including 256 levels transparency ) and prolly IE 6 ( don't have that installed yet ).

YES! alistpart answered part of my question... but I need more uptodate info. Do IE 6 / Firebird / Opera 7 support PNGs?

The prob. is...

Quote:

"IE5.5+/Win, bless its heart, will, in fact, display a PNG, but it doesn’t natively support alpha transparency. In IE5.5+/Win, the transparent area of your PNG will display at 100% opacity – that is, it won’t be transparent at all."

Bill Posters · 06-12-2003, 08:50

Its my understanding the MSIE6 doesn't *still* actually have proper PNG24 support.

In fact, it is the only major, modern browser not to do so (despite full support being promised when MSIE4 was in development).
Moe info:
http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngapb...#msie-win-unix

PNG browser support info:
http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngapbr.html

Add your shoulder to the wheel:
http://www.petitiononline.com/msiepng/petition.html

NB.
MSIE5/Mac has full, effective (inline) support for PNG24.

gray · 06-12-2003, 08:53

nah my IE6 shows tansparent png's with a grey background

gwx · 06-12-2003, 13:32

Hmm... that means that I can't use PNGs and tat's all gill bate's fault

It should be high time IE has PNG transparency! Netscape already does offer a level of PNG transparency support.. Isn't it weird that IE 5 in mac has full png support but IE 6 in windows doesn't?.

What is gill bates trying to do ? :sigh:

Bill Posters · 06-12-2003, 13:58

Suggested reading:
Cross-Browser Variable Opacity with PNG: A Real Solution

I personally opt for the 'AlphaImageLoader Filter' methods.
Athough it relies on proprietory (read: invalid) css, I'm happy to use externalised/marginalised proprietory css to fix a proprietory problem.
As a rule, I throw all such workarounds into one additional css file and @import it separately.
That way you can have the invalid code in one file which won't effect the validation of the rest of your code.

fwiw, the MSIE/Mac team are/were about as self-directing as a development team could get within MS. They clearly had more regard for standards (developmental and compliancy) than their MSIE/Win counterparts.
If only the MSIE/Win team had been half as diligent and dedicated as the MSIE/Mac team, web design/development wouldn't cause half as many headaches as it currently does.

dorian · 06-12-2003, 15:16

if it worked you would use it for your avatar, gwx

for example....

Mik · 06-12-2003, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Posters

Suggested reading:
Cross-Browser Variable Opacity with PNG: A Real Solution

I personally opt for the 'AlphaImageLoader Filter' methods.
Athough it relies on proprietory (read: invalid) css, I'm happy to use externalised/marginalised proprietory css to fix a proprietory problem.
As a rule, I throw all such workarounds into one additional css file and @import it separately.
That way you can have the invalid code in one file which won't effect the validation of the rest of your code.

fwiw, the MSIE/Mac team are/were about as self-directing as a development team could get within MS. They clearly had more regard for standards (developmental and compliancy) than their MSIE/Win counterparts.
If only the MSIE/Win team had been half as diligent and dedicated as the MSIE/Mac team, web design/development wouldn't cause half as many headaches as it currently does.

if only!

gwx · 07-12-2003, 00:19

AlphaImageLoaderFilter works only for IE.. If only it would work on all browsers

Bill Posters · 07-12-2003, 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwx

AlphaImageLoaderFilter works only for IE.. If only it would work on all browsers

:patiencewearingthin:

It only *needs* to work in MSIE/Win. MSIE/win is the only major browser than needs help to display PNG24 with alpha transparency.
As already mentioned, the inability to display PNG24 alpha transparency is a problem that only effects MSIE/Win, so (imho) it's fine to use a solution that only works on MSIE/Win.

Just to be clear: *Other browsers don't need the AlphaImageLoaderFilter*

Here's a link to some info that will help you understand the situation a bit better

- - -

Mik, which bit?

Mik · 07-12-2003, 11:53

last paragraph

Bill Posters · 07-12-2003, 12:18

Oh, I dunno. I'd say the box model hack (or rather the need for it) has been one of the bigger setbacks in the movement towards progressive techniques. Mostly because it presents a rather large fly in the ointment when pitching css-for-layouts to the unititiated et al who fear change (or the expense it might incur).

How do you see things?

Mik · 07-12-2003, 12:24

bit blurry at moment

Bill Posters · 07-12-2003, 12:33

glad to hear it.

gwx · 08-12-2003, 04:08

OK. That was clear enough but the link you provided was wrong?

06-12-2003, 08:53	#3 (permalink)
gray i still want paying Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: newcastle, uk Posts: 5,244	nah my IE6 shows tansparent png's with a grey background __________________ whocanplay.co.uk is a new football/sports organisational tool helping team managers to organise their players quickly and easily.

06-12-2003, 15:16	#6 (permalink)
dorian i do lines Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Poland/Denmark Posts: 3,191	if it worked you would use it for your avatar, gwx for example.... __________________ ... drawings \| sayings \| stickers

07-12-2003, 00:19	#8 (permalink)
gwx Dr. Macromedia Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Alpha Centauri Posts: 106	AlphaImageLoaderFilter works only for IE.. If only it would work on all browsers __________________ Macintosh - Style Windows - Monotony-polyzed

08-12-2003, 04:08	#14 (permalink)
gwx Dr. Macromedia Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Alpha Centauri Posts: 106	OK. That was clear enough but the link you provided was wrong? __________________ Macintosh - Style Windows - Monotony-polyzed

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06-12-2003, 08:50	#2 (permalink)
Bill Posters trouble free and loverlee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: YooKay Posts: 3,083	Its my understanding the MSIE6 doesn't still actually have proper PNG24 support. In fact, it is the only major, modern browser not to do so (despite full support being promised when MSIE4 was in development). Moe info: http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngapb...#msie-win-unix PNG browser support info: http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngapbr.html Add your shoulder to the wheel: http://www.petitiononline.com/msiepng/petition.html NB. MSIE5/Mac has full, effective (inline) support for PNG24.

06-12-2003, 13:32	#4 (permalink)
gwx Dr. Macromedia Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Alpha Centauri Posts: 106	Hmm... that means that I can't use PNGs and tat's all gill bate's fault It should be high time IE has PNG transparency! Netscape already does offer a level of PNG transparency support.. Isn't it weird that IE 5 in mac has full png support but IE 6 in windows doesn't?. What is gill bates trying to do ? :sigh:

06-12-2003, 13:58	#5 (permalink)
Bill Posters trouble free and loverlee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: YooKay Posts: 3,083	Suggested reading: Cross-Browser Variable Opacity with PNG: A Real Solution I personally opt for the 'AlphaImageLoader Filter' methods. Athough it relies on proprietory (read: invalid) css, I'm happy to use externalised/marginalised proprietory css to fix a proprietory problem. As a rule, I throw all such workarounds into one additional css file and @import it separately. That way you can have the invalid code in one file which won't effect the validation of the rest of your code. fwiw, the MSIE/Mac team are/were about as self-directing as a development team could get within MS. They clearly had more regard for standards (developmental and compliancy) than their MSIE/Win counterparts. If only the MSIE/Win team had been half as diligent and dedicated as the MSIE/Mac team, web design/development wouldn't cause half as many headaches as it currently does.

07-12-2003, 11:53	#10 (permalink)
Mik Award Winning™ Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 14,568	last paragraph

07-12-2003, 12:18	#11 (permalink)
Bill Posters trouble free and loverlee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: YooKay Posts: 3,083	Oh, I dunno. I'd say the box model hack (or rather the need for it) has been one of the bigger setbacks in the movement towards progressive techniques. Mostly because it presents a rather large fly in the ointment when pitching css-for-layouts to the unititiated et al who fear change (or the expense it might incur). How do you see things?

07-12-2003, 12:24	#12 (permalink)
Mik Award Winning™ Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 14,568	bit blurry at moment

07-12-2003, 12:33	#13 (permalink)
Bill Posters trouble free and loverlee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: YooKay Posts: 3,083	glad to hear it.

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