[oli]

BBC NEWS | Technology | Net firms in music pirates deal

sigh

[cam]

curious - when people are downloading music for free (illegally), what exactly do you expect their trade body to do?

devils advocate here.

[oli]

I think theres better ways to tackle it, they're not going to stop piracy by going heavy handed to ISPs and making criminals out of file sharers.
Offer a great service, for a reasonable price and more people will go legit, as iTunes seems to be proving.

[d*d]

If they find a way to police it effectively you watch those download prices shoot up

[Anxious]

Originally Posted by oli

I think theres better ways to tackle it, they're not going to stop piracy by going heavy handed to ISPs and making criminals out of file sharers.
Offer a great service, for a reasonable price and more people will go legit, as iTunes seems to be proving.

Exactly. If they offer music at the price it's actually worth, people won't resort to piracy. Getting 'tough' is not tackling the problem.

[d*d]

Originally Posted by Anxious

Exactly. If they offer music at the price it's actually worth, people won't resort to piracy.

Some people will always go for the free option if it's available

[Anxious]

Originally Posted by d*d

Some people will always go for the free option if it's available

Of course - that's a given.

However, if you provide decent alternatives to illegal downloading (i.e. offer music at a price which is both fair and affordable) you should then be able to make examples of those still choosing to download illegally.

It's like starving a child and then punishing it when it steals food! Ok, a bit extreme, but still...

[niggle]

It would be very easy for legitimate downloads to be better than piracy.

If the music was easier to find, of 100% reliable quality, there were no viruses mixed in with it and it was quick to download, people would pay a fair price for it.

Anyone who knows the first thing about business knows that to beat your competitor, you offer what they don't.

[Bill Posters]

Originally Posted by oli

I think theres better ways to tackle it, they're not going to stop piracy by going heavy handed to ISPs and making criminals out of file sharers.

Small point of order.
There may well be better ways to handle it, but it's the fact that they're sharing/downloading copyrighted material that makes them criminals, not that the record industry now wants to chase down some convictions.

Originally Posted by Anxious

Exactly. If they offer music at the price it's actually worth, people won't resort to piracy. Getting 'tough' is not tackling the problem

Who decides what it's worth?
What gives you the idea that you have a right to have their product at a price you choose?

Does this philosophy extent to other aspects of your life as a consumer - or just those where infringement is so easy?


(Devil's other advocate)

[weldo]

i'll never pay for music again - unless i really, really want something in particular.

but i spent years providing musical entertainment in bands all over the country ... and didn't see a penny. so fuck 'the industry'

[oli]

The way I see it, it costs them next to nothing to sell a download - rather than individual tracks for 79p, do a whole album for £2-£3 - they're not getting the money from illegal downloads anyway so doing them at that price would convert a lot of people over.

[oli]

Originally Posted by Bill Posters

but it's the fact that they're sharing/downloading copyrighted material that makes them criminals, not that the record industry now wants to chase down some convictions.

(Devil's other advocate)

Yes, but Im sure that a lot of illegal downloaders have also purchased a lot of legal music in the past - not good business to prosecute your customers !

[weldo]

yes, that would be the sensible approach.

there's minimal costs involved in digital downloads - no artwork, no distribution costs etc. so they can still make money out of it - they're just used to making more money ... and they're crying about it

[weldo]

and more listeners will result in greater ticket sales and merchandise - and the latter is where bands make the most money.

[niggle]

Who decides what it's worth?
What gives you the idea that you have a right to have their product at a price you choose?

Does this philosophy extent to other aspects of your life as a consumer - or just those where infringement is so easy?

The market decides what it's worth.

And yes, that philosophy extends to every area of commerce.

It's called capitalism.

[Anxious]

What niggle said. ^^

It's worth what people will pay for it, which is why the current prices are forcing people to go elsewhere.

[Bill Posters]

Originally Posted by Anxious

What niggle said. ^^

It's worth what people will pay for it, which is why the current prices are forcing people to go elsewhere.

Example…

You produce 'Design X'.
It costs you $300 of your time and resources to produce Design X.
You put it up for sale for $50 and sufficient people are willing to buy it at that price that you can make a good profit and generate a good stream of income.

Others come along and start using your design without paying you on the grounds that 'they don't think the design is worth $50'.

Bearing in mind that a significant amount of people are still willing to pay $50 to use that design, what do you do about the price and what do you do about those using your design without paying - and what does it do to your bottom line?

What gives you the idea that you have a right to have their product at a price you choose?

I don't consider this question answered.

It's one thing to refuse to buy/use it because (you believe) the price is too high (thereby forcing them to reassess their pricing model). It's a different issue to take it without paying because (you believe) the price is too high.

One is legitimate consumer pressure. The other is not.

[d*d]

Originally Posted by Bill Posters

Example…

You produce 'Design X'.
It costs you $300 of your time and resources to produce Design X.
You put it up for sale for $50 and sufficient people are willing to buy it at that price that you can make a good profit and generate a good stream of income.

Others come along and start using your design without paying you on the grounds that 'they don't think the design is worth $50'.

Bearing in mind that a significant amount of people are still willing to pay $50 to use that design, what do you do about the price and what do you do about those using your design without paying - and what does it do to your bottom line?

I'm not sure I understand how that relates, could you make it simpler, possibly use pictures?

[Bill Posters]

Originally Posted by Anxious

It's worth what people will pay for it, which is why the current prices are forcing people to go elsewhere.

It's not a stretch to say that, even at half the price, the amount of music which passes through the hands of a typical sharers/downloaders goes far beyond their disposable income were they to buy it.

Price is an easy excuse and probably a genuine reason for a small minority of downloaders, but it's likely to be the ease with which music can be freely obtained that leads the majority to take advantage.

I suspect that high-minded 'principles' play a far smaller part than its cool to admit.

[Stickman]

Only steal from rich bands.

That's what Robin Hood would do.