[rustybones]

Adobe Makes Flash Searchable - The Holy Grail of Website Usability? - ReadWriteWeb

So apparently after all these years Flash is finally going to be searchable/indexable by search engines. Interesting bit of news I thought some of you maybe interested in

[freelancr]

So what happens if you use javascript (swfobject, etc) to include your flash file on the page to stop IE (and Opera?) being retarded and doing the "click to activate this control" bollocks. I thought search engines ignored javascript, thus ignoring the swf.

This is good news, but I'm not convinced that creating an entire site in flash is a good idea if you want it to do well in the search engines. Urls, Meta Titles, Meta Tags, Headers, Alts, Title - all contribute some way towards your search engine ranking. For example, being able to use different ones for each product page on your ecommerce site gives you a huge advantage over a flash site.

[d*d]

Originally Posted by freelancr

This is good news, but I'm not convinced that creating an entire site in flash is a good idea if you want it to do well in the search engines. Urls, Meta Titles, Meta Tags, Headers, Alts, Title - all contribute some way towards your search engine ranking. For example, being able to use different ones for each product page on your ecommerce site gives you a huge advantage over a flash site.

What if you could specify semantic content in flash sites, will you relent then? Flash has come on in leaps and bounds in recent years to become a more accessable platform and is continuing to advance - Flash sites can provide richer experiences for users, you can't keep sticking your fingers in your ears and repeating the 'flash is bad' mantra

[woodss]

Silverlight is better :P

[top_buzz]

Cool, sounds good!

[urban1977]

Originally Posted by woodss

Silverlight is better :P

WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT!

Silverlight is 11 years too late!

[d*d]

Silverlight has a long way to go to usurp flash, i'll need a bit more convincing of it's longevity as a viable piece of technology before I invest in learning to use it

[Shiro]

I personally love flash, though my actionscript skills are severely lacking. I think it's a great piece of software though, and this is good news on that level.

If flash content isn't semantic yet, it will only be a matter of time until it is. Afterall, it wasn't even indexable at all until now, so the biggest hurdle has been overcome I figure.

[cam]

Originally Posted by freelancr

This is good news, but I'm not convinced that creating an entire site in flash is a good idea if you want it to do well in the search engines. Urls, Meta Titles, Meta Tags, Headers, Alts, Title - all contribute some way towards your search engine ranking. For example, being able to use different ones for each product page on your ecommerce site gives you a huge advantage over a flash site.

You have no idea about current Flash development practices.

As long as your content is coming from an external source, be it a database, XML file, whatever, then it's trivial for any semi-decent Flash developer to create a dynamic fall-back site for non-flash users, whoever those may be (iphone, bot, normal user).

As i've already posted elsewhere in the Flash forum, try looking at this with JS disabled (or no flash player) - HTML version using the same content that took less than a day to create.

[niggle]

Silverlight has a long way to go to usurp flash, i'll need a bit more convincing of it's longevity as a viable piece of technology before I invest in learning to use it

There have been plenty of technologies which were supposed to be like flash but better (PGML? That stupid adobe plug-in system?) and there'll be another one along in a minute.

Flash is rubbish at almost everything it does. Really, really horrible. Especially actionscript. But the sad fact is, its installed user base is colossal so we have to tag along grumbling as we do.

[cam]

Back on-topic, some further reading for anyone interested;

press release:- Adobe Advances Rich Media Search on the Web

google:- Official Google Webmaster Central Blog: Improved Flash indexing

adobe employee:- The Flash Blog » Adobe, Google, and Yahoo! Make Searching SWF Files Easier

http://blog.iconara.net/2008/07/01/s...w-that-by-now/

Peter Elst » Thoughts on Fully Searchable Flash

[niggle]

Thanks for the hard work on that Cam, it could be pretty important for all of us!

[cam]

Get fucked

[freelancr]

Originally Posted by cam

You have no idea about current Flash development practices.

Possibly so.

Originally Posted by cam

As long as your content is coming from an external source, be it a database, XML file, whatever, then it's trivial for any semi-decent Flash developer to create a dynamic fall-back site for non-flash users, whoever those may be (iphone, bot, normal user).

It's a nice thought, but why bother wasting time making something twice. Do something once, but use suitable methods for your desired end result.

Originally Posted by cam

As i've already posted elsewhere in the Flash forum, try looking at this with JS disabled (or no flash player) - HTML version using the same content that took less than a day to create.

With JS disabled, the site is ugly, although is obviously just there for benefit of the search engines. A little bit of time with the CSS and it could look identical to the flash version. People can't log in, search, or fill out a contact form.

Which brings me onto my next point. Why the does that site even use flash? The only "flashy" bits are the fading in and out of various parts. Surely there has to be more reason to use flash than that.

Don't get me wrong, the site is well made and a lot of thought has been put into various little touches, like with the URLs and the fallback site. But it should of just been made once using XHTML and CSS to begin with.

[niggle]

Originally Posted by cam

Get fucked

Charming!

[nate22]

Hey, no worries here! None of my websites show up on search engines anyway unless I use Wordpress and Digg the hell out of it, which I don't do.

[d*d]

Originally Posted by freelancr

It's a nice thought, but why bother wasting time making something twice. Do something once, but use suitable methods for your desired end result.

What if the desired end result is a richer interactive, animated experience. flash/no-flash threads are almost as bad as Mac/PC with polarised views either end unwilling to compromise their ideal vision of the internet, I personally prefer a vision where flash can be used without predjudice

[freelancr]

Originally Posted by d*d

What if the desired end result is a richer interactive, animated experience.

I am not predujiced against using flash. I love many applications of it, such as Vimeo's HD player, BBC's iPlayer, the "Get The Glass" game made, even stuff like Stickdeath kept me entertained about 8 years ago. I really like Top Buzz's micro-sites for events/music/etc, and his banner ads, which without flash wouldn't be anywhere near as good.

Feel free to use flash on any website you choose, but don't harp on about it being a great development decision and an excellent execution of the flash player technology when all you have used is a fade in effect which could be done using JS on an xhtml/css site.

Back on topic.

I wonder if this will now allow for lyrics to be added to music players, or subtitles added to video players, so these players can easily be found by search engines based on their actual content.

[urban1977]

Originally Posted by cam

You have no idea about current Flash development practices.

As long as your content is coming from an external source, be it a database, XML file, whatever, then it's trivial for any semi-decent Flash developer to create a dynamic fall-back site for non-flash users, whoever those may be (iphone, bot, normal user).

As i've already posted elsewhere in the Flash forum, try looking at this with JS disabled (or no flash player) - HTML version using the same content that took less than a day to create.

If content is served via XML or Database you can create RSS feed of that content. If your using Coldfusion or similar you can refresh your RSS feed everytime there is a content change.

This helps making the content accessible to none Flash users and also makes it SE friendly.

<no script> area of the object tag is also used to describe the flash content and add any extra SEO stuff.

Flash is accessible / SE Friendly already!

[hawken]

In a recent poll, you guys chose html over flash.

flash VS html, exciting VS boring