[Galenobs]

Hello,

I am here to offer an opportunity for those trying to "break in" to the field. I have a consulting firm called "Galen Observations". We work largely with nightclubs, hotels, casinos and restaurants. We are a national company with over a hundred active corporate-level clients with over three hundred units (sites).

I have been looking into web designers over the past few months and have spent over a thousand dollars to date on feedback and layout work and have yet to find what I'm looking for. So, instead of wasting more money and time on just one designer or firm, I'm going to try this.

I'm wanting a "flash" type site based largely on the color scheme and logo currently up at "galenobservations. com". The site design was just something basic that was posted to give a general idea of what I'm looking for. The content on the site can be used in any submissions and should give an idea of who we are and what we do.

I am looking for someone "new" with cutting edge ideas, but who can also looks toward our business audience. In other words, no flaming heads or naked anime.

While there is no money involved in this work upfront, the "winner" will get two things: design credit on the posted website and you will get a personal recommendation from me to my clients, many of whom have websites in dire need of updating.

So, please keep in mind that you may find yourself with your foot in a very large door.

In terms of time restraints, we are pushing a new promotion just after Halloween, so I will look at ideas until then.

Thank you for your help,
Kenneth Purdy
CEO/Galen Observations
ceo@galenobservations.com

[smallbeer]

Galeknob, torn between leaving one of your many posts in either competitions or employment, I opted for employment...even though it's not really either.

the rest have been deleted.

[Galenobs]

I'm interested to know why you would delete the posting?

[smallbeer]

As I just told you in the reply to your PM. You posted the same message in 4 or 5 different forums. You only need to post in one.

[JiRaffe]

While there is no money involved in this work upfront, the "winner" will get two things: design credit on the posted website and you will get a personal recommendation from me to my clients, many of whom have websites in dire need of updating.

hmmmmmmm

[tomson]

Originally Posted by Galenobs

I have been looking into web designers over the past few months and have spent over a thousand dollars to date on feedback and layout work and have yet to find what I'm looking for. So, instead of wasting more money and time on just one designer or firm, I'm going to try this.

So... let me get this straight - you've spent thousands so far, but have been unhappy with the results? In what way - what are they doing/not doing? Care to show us some of this layout work?

I'm assuming you're going to established designers with good portfolios and relevant industry experience? Yet you expect to achieve the results you require by using someone with little or no experience?

Now, if you are as you say "a national company with over a hundred active corporate-level clients with over three hundred units" then that should give you a fair bit of leverage with deigners/design agencies. If you have money to invest then you should shortlist a number of companies/individuals and invite them to submit pitch work and proposals after giving them a full and comprehensive brief outlining your requirements. Just stating "a flash type site based largely on the color scheme and logo currently up" is simply not enough.

If on the otherhand you just want some mug to redesign your site but don't want to pay for it - then just say so. Someone might welcome the opportunity.

If not then you really should question your approach to the whole process.

[Gdr]

Spot on tomson.

[Galenobs]

Well, I will have to say that I am more than a bit surprised by the suspicious nature of some in here. I thought I was offering a great opportunity to someone, but it seems most are assuming differently.

In response to a post above, I will say this: a key to running a successful business is not to throw money away. I dealt with four separate designers and all of them seemed more concerned with dragging their feet to push hourly costs or require an "upfront" payment. I don't believe in paying someone for work unseen or unproven. The logo on our site is the only thing that I received that I liked.

Now, for those of you who are interested in this opportunity, please let us know. Those of you who, for whatever reason, do not have faith in this offer, please don't ruin it for someone else.

Thank you.

[adras]

If you spent thousands of dollars on this http://galenobservations.com/, then i feel sorry for you.

[seen.to]

Tomson was spot on with everything he said.

Every designer with as much as a grain of sense will ask for an upfront payment, usually 25-33% to avoid 'clients' that either have no cash or don't want to spend it. For every client that actually wants a site there are a hundred that think they do. These 'clients' will wait until the site is complete before changing their mind about their whole business concept and going back to working in McDonalds. A friend of mine is still owed £10,000 from one such 'client'.

Making a down-payment shows your commitment to a project and also allows the designer to live whilst creating your site. Would you work for days, weeks, even months for nothing in the hope that your client doesn't turn out to be nothing more than a time-waster that changes their mind at the last minute?

Everything should be clearly outlined in a contract between client and designer and shouldn't include an hourly fee. You should pay on a per project basis rather than a per hour basis unless you are hiring someone in-house or on a set-time contract.

As far as work unproven you should check a designers portfolio before hiring them and make sure that you like their work and their proposal for your site.

A key to running a successful design business is not to throw away time working on projects that will never yield any return.

You are basically trying to get a free site - you aren't even offering a prize for your competition other than the possibility of a recommendation and a site credit. Why not offer $5,000 as a prize - I'm sure you'd get some submissions then.

You mention that you spent 'over a thousand dollars' but you should expect to spend considerably more than that if you wish to achieve a professional result from a professional designer.

You also can't expect much from a designer when you tell them that you would like something like your existing site and so-called logo because, to be frank, it's a sack of pus.

[Galenobs]

I'm sorry. I assumed this was a web forum for serious people looking for opportunities. The responses I've been getting are nothing but negative chidings from apparantly disgruntled professionals who are only looking spoil the opportunity for others or to make childish comments. I will seek a more legitimate audience.

[seen.to]

I'm sorry. I was unaware that you were offering any opportunity other than to design you a Web site without compensation.

[Galenobs]

Then, beyond being apparently negative and childish, you are very short-sighted for a professional. I am not looking to offer work to another "quick-buck"-minded individual, Mr. Drake, I am looking to offer an opportunity to someone new who wants to establish themselves and has the capability to offer our clients a much-needed alternative to what we have experienced when dealing with certain designers. That is why this offer was presented as it was with no upfront compensation or mention of ending bonus...to weed out responses from the type of professionals that have disappointed me. I am interested in someone upbeat, positive-natured, with a working knowledge of the field. I am NOT looking for an established professional. I would much rather have someone with moderate ability and the right attitude. If you do not see the opportunity in our offer, then you are not what we are looking for and certainly not someone we would refer our clients to.

[mike_m]

Good Grief. Mr Galenobs - would you go into a computer shop and say

"I've had some dodgy computers from other companies in the past, give me a free computer, and then if I like you I'll tell my friends you're good"

???

no one is going to provide work for free, because we've all been in the situation that you say you are in, but from a reverse: people have come to us, said they want this and they want that, but then after making god knows how many proposals and mock designs, they mysteriously stop talking to you or answering your phone calls. Then thier website appears and it has obviously been based on your original designs, but they got someone cheaper to rip your ideas off and you are left with only a serious amount of wasted time on your hands.

If you want professional people to make a site for you, look at thier work, talk to thier past clients and get refferals from them, and when you find someone that produces work to the standard you want, and thier past clients say they are trustworthy and efficient, tell them what you want, listen to thier advice and be prepared to pay a deposit on the work you are commisioning. For the most part you are advertising to professionals in here who don't give work away for airy fairy promises of recommendations, but deal with other businesses as businesses do - and that means they generally expect to get paid for thier hard work. the shock and horror of it....

[praetor2004]

If your logo is the only one thing that you liked... i´m sorry for you... that logo can be made a child of 10 years old... i say that for my cousin has designed very nice and better logos that yours... and yeah, if you hope that someone says: "i can made some design for free, if you liked then pay me", you´re crazy man... better, pay some dollars or pounds in creative, serious and very good designers...

[seen.to]

You get what you pay for Mr. Purdy. Pay peanuts and expect a monkey.

[roto]

Originally Posted by seen.to

You get what you pay for Mr. Purdy. Pay peanuts and expect a monkey.

Well said...a brilliant synopsis.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Galenobs, before you continue with your recruitment quest, you could certainly benefit from reading:

this & this

Also, here's a quote I only wish I could claim as my own when it comes to this field:

Originally Posted by Steve Drucker in a recent Macromedia "The Edge" e-Newsletter

"Sometimes I question my career choice of web developer/designer. I know of no other vocation where friends, relatives, neighbors --and sometimes complete strangers-- expect you to routinely render professional services for free."

Maybe this fine reading will help you realize what we deal with in our profession AND why we are so apprehensive when someone wants something done for nothing.

[Galenobs]

Well, this will be my last response as my "free time" is about to end.

Thank you for the insight and, while I do understand the popular mentality in the above comments and where it comes from, most simply do not see the genuine opportunity, have not actually thoroughly read my original post, or are too jaded from previous engagements.

However, again, to all the "professionals" who have shared their thoughts above, you are not the target audience for this listing/opportunity. I understand your lack of interest in this offer, so please stop responding to it and let those who may actually want or need a "chance" to break in to the field without your learned skepticism.

[praetor2004]

LoL... it´s funny of your part to say this... anyway... good luck with your "search" of bored and rich people that can made that work for you...

Regards...