[sub]

And thus contradicting the posts you reported for trolling.

[N1CK3RS0N]

Originally Posted by sub

And thus contradicting the posts you reported for trolling.

Can you guys read or are you having someone else read for you and then type for you?

As the wiki page I posted. It says someone who posts in order to provoke a response. The response itself isn't trolling. The initial post in order to provoke a response or start a fight IS.

[Klang]

Where would you be with Wikipedia hey? Although your previous cut and paste job still does nothing to back up your statement that HTML and CSS are design elements and not coding.

[N1CK3RS0N]

Originally Posted by Klang

Where would you be with Wikipedia hey? Although your previous cut and paste job still does nothing to back up your statement that HTML and CSS are design elements and not coding.

They are coding. Coding which produce design. People who do HTML/CSS are known as Web-Designers, as they produce designs.

Your saying its development only. I'm saying its design AND development. As I said in the original post.

And you may want to read it again encase you missed it. Both my original post and the definition of what a Designer is.

[LittleMick]

HTML/CSS/JavaScript = Front-end Web Developer

[N1CK3RS0N]

Originally Posted by LittleMick

HTML/CSS/JavaScript = Front-end Web Developer

What would you consider a Web-Designer then?

wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_design

I would classify static content primarily as design, dynamic content primarily as development. Though each area posses elements of both design and development, as they go hand and hand with each other.

[Klang]

Originally Posted by LittleMick

HTML/CSS/JavaScript = Front-end Web Developer

In a nutshell.

[LittleMick]

Web designers works on the layout, graphical elements, colour scheme, typography etc. In short they design the site but they do not build it.

[N1CK3RS0N]

Originally Posted by LittleMick

Web designers works on the layout, graphical elements, colour scheme, typography etc. In short they design the site but they do not build it.

Working on layout is part of HTML and CSS though. They are design based languages. The end result is to produce a design.

"Web design is the skill of creating presentations of content (usually hypertext or hypermedia) that is delivered to an end-user through the World Wide Web, by way of a Web browser or other Web-enabled software like Internet television clients, microblogging clients and RSS readers."

[Tom]

You haven't got to be brilliant at coding, but I don't think you can call yourself a web designer unless you have a fairly decent grasp of at least HTML & CSS – it is inherently critical to understanding the medium you are meant to be designing for after all.

Ridiculous to think otherwise surely.

Good article:
Elliot Jay Stocks » Web designers who can’t code

[Klang]

Stop quoting Wikipedia, you're talking to people who do this for a living.

If someone asks me solely for design, that is all they get, a PSD, they won't get the CSS or HTML.

[Anxious]

It was my understanding that there were three defined web roles - design (concept and artwork), front end development (CSS/HTML) and back end development (PHP/SQL/ASP, etc.)?

[Klang]

Originally Posted by Tom_E

You haven't got to be brilliant at coding, but I don't think you can call yourself a web designer unless you have a fairly decent grasp of at least HTML & CSS – it is inherently critical to understanding the medium you are meant to be designing for after all.

Yeah, you have to understand it all. But commercially (money) the difference between someone asking you to design a site and someone asking you to design and build a site are two different things.

You wouldn't naturally provide the coding for a design job.

[sub]

Of course there are those who are able to provide all aspects of design and development.

[N1CK3RS0N]

Originally Posted by Klang

Stop quoting Wikipedia, you're talking to people who do this for a living.

If someone asks me solely for design, that is all they get, a PSD, they won't get the CSS or HTML.

Friend, I do this for a living. Don't assume you are above others when you know nothing of who they are.

From your understanding of what design is, I would say its safe to assume that you have very limited knowledge of the business.

[LittleMick]

You go to plenty of agencies and they will have a web designer and front end web developer. I agree that a web designer should have a grasp of HTML/CSS but some don't and they continue to work becuase they are good at what they do.

[pob]

making a site for your school chess club dont count as doing it for a living.

[Klang]

I'm not the one constantly quoting wikipedia you silly prick.

[N1CK3RS0N]

Originally Posted by pob

making a site for your school chess club dont count as doing it for a living.

Neither does trolling a forum called "designtalk" which has design in the name yet insists that HTML and CSS has nothing to do with design at all.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Klang

Yeah, you have to understand it all. But commercially (money) the difference between someone asking you to design a site and someone asking you to design and build a site are two different things.

You wouldn't naturally provide the coding for a design job.

Agreed, nothing wrong with designing a site in Photoshop only of course if required, fairly frequent practice of course, but far more common practice is for a person or business to do the complete design and coding though, generally smoother and more accurate that way.