CSS wisdom please

mx
mx
Global Visionary™Posts: 1,673 in Web Design
After reading all the pro-total css / anti-tables ranting on this site for ages now, I've decided to finally take the css plunge and am going to attempt my first totally css-driven site! I've previously used css extensively for formatting and styling but have always used tables for the basic layout!

Any words of wisdom before I take the plunge?
Any standard fuck-ups to avoid?
Am intending to use the topstyle embedded in dreamweaver mx 2004, Is this wise?
Any good css reference book recommendations?

Sorry if this has all been asked before, but I couldn't find a suitable thread!

:)
«13

Comments

  • oli
    oli
    Posts: 14,145
    Best thing is to take a look at some sample layouts and figure out how they're put together http://www.bluerobot.com/web/layouts/ etc.

    You could also try and do a layout for csszengarden.com , thats how I learnt.
    If you have topstyle, Id just use that for your code and css.
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
  • cam
    cam
    vague™ Posts: 5,637
    max h wrote:
    Any standard fuck-ups to avoid?

    Don't try and recreate your table-layouts with css using divs and/or absolute positioning.
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    Definitely what Oli (EDIT: and emilpaun and cam) said.

    Also...

    http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/projectnew/index.php
    http://css.maxdesign.com.au/ (I use this all the time)
    http://www.alistapart.com

    CSS Layout:
    http://glish.com/css/ - more CSS layouts.

    Link Collections:
    http://www.dezwozhere.com/links.html
    http://www.alvit.de/web-dev/
    http://www.alvit.de/handbook/

    Web Standards Solutions - by Dan Cederholm of www.simplebits.com is an absolute god-send. This is the book that really moved me from tables to CSS. Everyone should own it. Best CSS book I've read, by far. Cheap, too, at $23 (USD). It has everything in it - lists, navigation, layouts, text styles, table styling and so on and so forth.

    What he stresses as far as (X)HTML is concerned - is semantics. While it's not so important to stress over the minutia of semantics, it is important to recognize their value and use them as best you can within the framework of (X)HTML. For more on that, I recommend his SimpleQuiz, which is basically a discussion of how best to mark up some content in a given situation. Quite eye-opening.

    I credit him with my move to web standards.

    Hope this helps!
  • mx
    mx
    Global Visionary™ Posts: 1,673
    Thanks 4 all that guys. loads of reference points there. have ordered Web Standards Solutions, nowt like a bit of paper reference!
    cam wrote:
    Don't try and recreate your table-layouts with css using divs and/or absolute positioning.

    not sure actually what you mean by that cam, I've taken to understanding that css layout wise is like defining the cells without the table! how far wrong am i?
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    max h wrote:
    Thanks 4 all that guys. loads of reference points there. have ordered Web Standards Solutions, nowt like a bit of paper reference!
    Well done, it shall serve you nicely.

    CSS-based layouts aren't like tables. You create individual boxes of content, basically (a div for the header, a div for navigation, a div for content, a div for a sidebar, and so on) - where tables are rigid, CSS is not. Of course, it's easier to mindlessly control layouts with tables, but their in-flexibility, bulky code, and inaccessibility are major problems.

    From there, CSS is used to position the boxes, size them, add margins, padding, etc. It's really simple once you get the hang of it. However, be ready for mayhem in IE when you start floating things.

    Another tip: Always develop your sites and test in Firefox. Once it works there, then check IE, where it will be broken (probably). Then hack to fix for IE. It's a pain, I know.
  • mx
    mx
    Global Visionary™ Posts: 1,673
    pgo wrote:
    Another tip: Always develop your sites and test in Firefox. Once it works there, then check IE, where it will be broken (probably). Then hack to fix for IE. It's a pain, I know.

    Already been doing that for the past year or so! one those 'never go back' things.
    IE's ability to knacker code is plain demoralizing!

    I've seen numerous posts about 'floating' issues so if pos will try and steer well clear!
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
    check also for troubleshooting
    www.positioniseverything.net
  • Stickman
    Stickman
    Expert Posts: 5,502
    pgo wrote:
    You create individual boxes of content, basically (a div for the header, a div for navigation, a div for content, a div for a sidebar, and so on)
    Being picky, but ideally, you want to be careful when you approach it like that. Could quickly get divtastic.

    For example, your navigation can often just be a list <ul> and for simple layouts, content can be just positioned paragraphs and images.

    You can position and style all elements, not just divs.
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    You're absolutely correct. However, especially for people new to CSS-based design, it's often easier to use divs to lay out the general areas of a page - it's more like tables in that you have pre-defined content areas (header, nav, content, sidebar, footer, and so on).

    I still do it out of habit sometimes - there are many times I could have used <ul id="nav"> perfectly well, but <div id="nav"><ul> was just easier. Of course, most pages I create have a grand total of 4-6 <div>s, so I do avoid divitis generally.
  • cam
    cam
    vague™ Posts: 5,637
    Stickman wrote:
    Being picky, but ideally, you want to be careful when you approach it like that. Could quickly get divtastic.

    For example, your navigation can often just be a list <ul> and for simple layouts, content can be just positioned paragraphs and images.

    You can position and style all elements, not just divs.

    It's not being picky Stick, it's the way it should be done, and was what I was meaning.

    Basically, make sure your markup is semantic - if something is a list of items, mark it up as a list, if you've pairs of items, mark them up as definitions lists, nest your headers correctly, etc.

    The div element should be reserved for dividing up the page, encapsulating numerous other related semantic elements - e.g. a group of headers and paragraphs could be wrapped with a div to allow the whole area to be styled collectively.
  • cam
    cam
    vague™ Posts: 5,637
    pgo wrote:
    You're absolutely correct. However, especially for people new to CSS-based design, it's often easier to use divs to lay out the general areas of a page

    It's best if he learns right from the start i'd say
  • Mik
    Mik
    Award Winning™ Posts: 14,633
    max h wrote:
    After reading all the pro-total css / anti-tables ranting on this site for ages now, I've decided to finally take the css plunge and am going to attempt my first totally css-driven site! I've previously used css extensively for formatting and styling but have always used tables for the basic layout!

    Any words of wisdom before I take the plunge?
    Any standard fuck-ups to avoid?
    Am intending to use the topstyle embedded in dreamweaver mx 2004, Is this wise?
    Any good css reference book recommendations?

    Sorry if this has all been asked before, but I couldn't find a suitable thread!

    :)

    just get someone else to do it.
  • mx
    mx
    Global Visionary&#0153; Posts: 1,673
    Mr Mik wrote:
    just get someone else to do it.

    Good plan! when are you free?
  • Brown
    Brown
    volkswagen yellow & gold Posts: 6,209
    i'd like to see that.
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
    Brown wrote:
    i'd like to see that.
    voyeur...
  • stealthcow
    stealthcow
    knocking heads Posts: 2,270
    Web Standards Solutions - by Dan Cederholm of www.simplebits.com is an absolute god-send. This is the book that really moved me from tables to CSS. Everyone should own it. Best CSS book I've read, by far. Cheap, too, at $23 (USD). It has everything in it - lists, navigation, layouts, text styles, table styling and so on and so forth.

    bought!

    go amazon!
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
    haven't read any book on css yet. don't even plan to. classic litterature is much nicer.
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
    Cool little tool
    CSSVista is a free Windows application for web developers which lets you edit your CSS code live in both Internet Explorer and Firefox simultaneously. By building your sites to work in both IE 6 and Firefox you'll be compatible with 88% of your visitors' web browsers*.
    http://www.sitevista.com/cssvista/
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
    and a new css image map.
    http://frankmanno.com/ideas/css-imagemap-redux/

    unfortunately it relies on png opacity, and the microsoft alpha filter. But it may prove useful
  • Taviii
    Taviii
    Registered User Posts: 2
    Uite unde gasesc romani!! :)

    Very useful thread with a lot of resources, I gotta bookmark it :D
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
    Hello, Tavi.


    Another link:
    Image floats without text wrap
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    emilpaun wrote:
    She's right, but haven't people on this board been saying the very same thing that she quotes Andy Clarke as saying...
    Those people still delivering nested table layout, spacer gifs or ignoring accessibility can no longer call themselves web professionals.
    Very true.
  • Stickman
    Stickman
    Expert Posts: 5,502
    pgo wrote:
    She's right, but haven't people on this board been saying the very same thing that she quotes Andy Clarke as saying...
    Shhh! Thats how these people make a living.
  • Big Jim
    Big Jim
    Registered User Posts: 45
    That Molly bint really gets on my tits with her bleating on like that.
  • smallbeer
    smallbeer
    I Ain't Losing Any Sleep™ Posts: 5,141
    has it actually been said anywhere why disney decided to switch back?

    I did read some funny comments the other day (can't remember where) where Luke popped up naming and shaming the developers of the new site, only to pop up later in the long list of pointless comments saying scrap that, it wasn't actually them.

    hopefully the lynch mob hadn't reached the door yet.
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    Maybe that explains why I haven't seen any new posts by him recently? :o
  • Brown
    Brown
    volkswagen yellow & gold Posts: 6,209
    i saw that, quality bit of retraction.
    As a correction to an earlier post, it seems Akiko are probably not responsible for this new site…it seems they helped out on the old one, so apologies all round.
    http://www.molly.com/2005/11/03/an-open-letter-to-disney-store-uk/
  • gray
    gray
    i still want paying Posts: 5,149
    smallbeer wrote:
    I did read some funny comments the other day (can't remember where) where Luke popped up naming and shaming the developers of the new site, only to pop up later in the long list of pointless comments saying scrap that, it wasn't actually them.

    hopefully the lynch mob hadn't reached the door yet.


    haha saw that
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
  • herkalees
    herkalees
    Semantics, yay. Posts: 1,612
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    Centered Tabs with CSS

    http://24ways.org/advent/centered-tabs-with-css

    Could be handy.
  • finbarr
    finbarr
    who the fuck am i? Posts: 2,676
    pgo wrote:
    Centered Tabs with CSS

    http://24ways.org/advent/centered-tabs-with-css

    Could be handy.
    implementing this on something as we speak :) ;) found it last week sometime
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    And you didn't post it!? :shock:

    Hang your head in shame.
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
    Seen it too before.
  • finbarr
    finbarr
    who the fuck am i? Posts: 2,676
    pgo wrote:
    And you didn't post it!? :shock:

    Hang your head in shame.
    sorry... Emils accused me in the past as well. I just naturally presume that you guys will have seen things before me because it seems I'm always playing catch up with everything. And as it was on 24 ways that was the nail in the coffin.

    I'll try to be more considerate in future :(

    edit - okay this will either prove my theory or make me hang my head in shame as suggested. A couple of new (to me at least) css portals:

    http://smoothoperator.strund.jp/
    http://v2.stylereactor.net/
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
    Yeah, I have seen both of them, but it's good posting theme here, because others might be reading this thread, too. I hope :)
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    finbarr wrote:
    sorry... Emils accused me in the past as well. I just naturally presume that you guys will have seen things before me because it seems I'm always playing catch up with everything. And as it was on 24 ways that was the nail in the coffin.

    I'll try to be more considerate in future :(

    edit - okay this will either prove my theory or make me hang my head in shame as suggested. A couple of new (to me at least) css portals:

    http://smoothoperator.strund.jp/
    http://v2.stylereactor.net/
    Never seen 'em. :)
  • finbarr
    finbarr
    who the fuck am i? Posts: 2,676
    pgo wrote:
    Never seen 'em. :)
    my head is hanging in shame as I write... apologies all round :(
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    Lift your head up high, my son. You have enlightened us with new and valuable resources.
  • finbarr
    finbarr
    who the fuck am i? Posts: 2,676
    pgo wrote:
    Lift your head up high, my son. You have enlightened us with new and valuable resources.
    :) :) :) :)
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
    "more" links
    http://www.knusperpixel.com/playground/more-more-links.php

    While maybe not worth applying to "more" links, I can see the technique behind this idea being put to some better use


    EDIT: And another link on how to make css graphs
    http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/percentage/
  • finbarr
    finbarr
    who the fuck am i? Posts: 2,676
    dont know if its been seen before but:
    http://www.artypapers.com/csshelppile/
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
    Lazy man's way. Free sliding-doors navs
    http://www.exploding-boy.com/2005/12/15/free-css-navigation-designs/

    And scalable images. Using ems (never thought of that)
    http://sonspring.com/journal/em-image-sizing
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    Interesting. Too bad the image looks like shit unless at the default size.
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
    Yeah but I imagine it working with Images less copmlicated/compressed. Plus someone who needs the text that big, probably can't tell the difference anyway :)
  • finbarr
    finbarr
    who the fuck am i? Posts: 2,676
    pgo wrote:
    Interesting. Too bad the image looks like shit unless at the default size.
    surely if you started with a much larger image and scaled it down using ems then when it was scaled back up again it wouldnt lose clarity? Admittedly there may be extra load time but minimal surely?

    Nice links emil :)
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    Good thought finbarr! When I grow a pair and start using ems for layout, I'll be sure to do that. Maybe.
  • Dusty
    Dusty
    You Ecks Posts: 11,545
    Scaling images down tends to look shit as well, especially for gifs. It all depends on the browsers render engine, so things might get better on that front.
  • finbarr
    finbarr
    who the fuck am i? Posts: 2,676
    pgo wrote:
    Good thought finbarr! When I grow a pair and start using ems for layout, I'll be sure to do that. Maybe.
    ditto! :)
  • 30equals
    30equals
    Senior Member Posts: 145
    when reading a lot of the links provided in here, am i quite ashamed being a graduated graphical (web)designer. but that's what you get when not working in the industry, and trying to keep up in your spare time.
    especially when there's so much to learn (like i'm focussing on php right now) and you feel that time is running past you.

    cool links nonetheless :)
  • roto
    roto
    |-/ Posts: 12,958
    30equals wrote:
    like i'm focussing on php right now
    Then CSS should be a breeze...
  • emil
    emil
    dt immigrant Posts: 11,928
  • finbarr
    finbarr
    who the fuck am i? Posts: 2,676
    new link portal... may be of interest to some of you:

    http://www.timvansas.nl/bookmarks/
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    Nice one, finbarr. Haha, I'll add it to the pile.
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
  • finbarr
    finbarr
    who the fuck am i? Posts: 2,676
    another resource site:

    http://www.killercss.com/

    dont know if there's anything new there for anyone but may be worth a look :)
  • i3lance
    i3lance
    Powerful beyond measure Posts: 876
    Cheers Fin. killercss.com is not a bad site at all...
  • finbarr
    finbarr
    who the fuck am i? Posts: 2,676
    pgo wrote:
    quality... be using those definitely :love:
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    A complete setup: XHTML/CSS/PHP. Not complete, but worth keeping an eye on.

    Seems like he's basically doing what I already do. Perhaps I'll find a trick I hadn't thought of, though.

    http://www.latenightrabbit.com/simple-organism/
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    A nice little overview of accessible form creation:

    http://www.websiteoptimization.com/speed/tweak/forms/

    Probably old hat to most, but worth a look for people just learning.
  • datahound
    datahound
    Spare Parts Posts: 6,596
    pgo wrote:
    Looked at the demo pages, that man is a genious. Thanks.
  • cam
    cam
    vague™ Posts: 5,637
    Quite liked this:
    If I have a fixed-width container and want some padding around elements within it, I often use this CSS:

    #container {
    width: 500px;
    }
    #container * {
    margin: 0 15px;
    }
    #container * * {
    margin: 0;
    }

    http://bitesizestandards.com/bites/using-the-universal-selector
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    Clever! I love it.
  • stickmus
    stickmus
    hmmm... Posts: 2,106
    Yeah, I've used that before, but be careful as you can run in to specicifity issues with the id and double *
  • poisonruby
    poisonruby
    n00b Posts: 15
    I don't get it. How is it possible to write without CSS?
  • Scott
    Scott
    sanddancer Posts: 3,235
    ?^
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    Yeah...what?
  • Scott
    Scott
    sanddancer Posts: 3,235
    use the force luke
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    Good article on getting started designing sites the right way:

    http://www.cameronmoll.com/archives/001211.html
  • i3lance
    i3lance
    Powerful beyond measure Posts: 876
    pgo wrote:
    Good article on getting started designing sites the right way:

    http://www.cameronmoll.com/archives/001211.html

    Yeah seen it mate, useful even for seasoned designers as it says.

    btw - Where you been? Not seen or heard from ya on 3D either. :o
  • Limbo
    Limbo
    Established Norm Posts: 27,307
    CSS Search Engine: http://skuer.com
  • EngAdven
    EngAdven
    Specialist SEO CMS Posts: 25
    Don’t try to create your first site from scratch. You’ll spend hours and go around in circles.
    Initially copy some free templates or use a css wizard and start by just changing one part of the design. Then each site you make you can get more adventurous. You’ll soon get the hang of it with going mad trying to get it to work in all browsers.
  • LorEye
    LorEye
    I'm So Awesome Posts: 121
    I've been trying to teach myself CSS. We're supposed to be learning it at school, but the instructor who thinks tables are God has been very vague on the details of CSS, and she uses Dreamweaver to teach us.

    My question is, can CSS be used to make your design (including graphics) a constant, and any and all content seperate. So that if you want to change one link on your page it will change all pages (similar to how frames or php works I guess)
  • Transmogrify
    Transmogrify
    Senior Member Posts: 1,827
    LorEye wrote:
    I've been trying to teach myself CSS. We're supposed to be learning it at school, but the instructor who thinks tables are God has been very vague on the details of CSS, and she uses Dreamweaver to teach us.

    My question is, can CSS be used to make your design (including graphics) a constant, and any and all content seperate. So that if you want to change one link on your page it will change all pages (similar to how frames or php works I guess)

    No. this isn't what css does. it describes how your html document looks, not the content of a document.
  • White Shift
    White Shift
    http://pseudocrap.net/ Posts: 44
    CSS styles the presentation.
    HTML formats the data.
    XML describes the data.

    I don't know if this has been said already, but ALWAYS COMMENT YOUR WORK. It'll help if you have a lot in your CSS file and if any of it seems like gibberish.
  • asariyski
    asariyski
    z-z-z Posts: 100
    I don't know if this has been said already, but ALWAYS COMMENT YOUR WORK.

    ...but keep the comments to yourself (except if you want someone else to see them).
    It is dumb to publish commented markup as in downloading 1-2k bulk data along with your website - although it is insignificant in size, it is still bullshit for the browser.
  • Tadhg
    Tadhg
    ... Posts: 81
    Just getting stuck into CSS for the first time and found this thread really helpful, nice one!
  • ashgilpincom
    ashgilpincom
    AshGilpin.com Posts: 22
    CSS Only - Overrated

    CSS-only sites are quite overrated. What's the point, really? Maybe when CSS3 is widely available then you can do CSS-only sites because CSS3 is supposed to support div columns (something not currently available in CSS2).

    For the time being, you want to stick to hybrid sites. Use as much CSS for site layout as possible but use tables for tabular data and the such. Plus, doing all of those hacks to get things working on all web browsers - that's just for the birds.

    You can check out my site, eyepinch.com. View the source. You can see that most all of my site is in DIV/CSS. Only certain pages use tables - hence, only use it when it's needed.
  • olivermonkey
    olivermonkey
    Web Monkey Posts: 11
    ashgilpincom,

    I have just had a look at your site and it seems to have a lot of hardcoded styles. Where possible you should attach and ID or Class to your div's and implement the style using your CSS. There is also a lot of Javascript code in the page, this would be better being sat in external JS files and just linked to. This helps when spiders traul your site, many have a limit to how much info they scan, so if they have to search through loads of JS at the top of the page they may never get to reading the actual information on the site.

    Sorry for the rant but you seem to have implemented some good pieces of CSS and followed them up with some poor bits. As a final point you also seem to have put your nav's in as Definition Lists (DL) and Definition Titles (DT) but I would advise you to use Unordered Lists (UL) and List Item (LI) instead. DL's should be used for information and their definitions. So definition lists should have <dl>, then definition title <dt>, then definition description <dd>.

    Apologies again, if you have any questions I am pretty CSS savy, I've spent the last two years building sites using it everyday.
  • jantuan
    jantuan
    Registered User Posts: 15
    A good book to start
    max h wrote:
    Any good css reference book recommendations?

    I read the The Zen of CSS Design: The enlightenment for web by Dave Shea, it's great just great for those who are experienced with CSS, but novice in CSS-layout style.... a book constructed on examples, and includes a lot a lot of useful stuff.

    Strongly recommend.
  • microdesign
    microdesign
    Senior Member Posts: 236
    great topic guys!
  • martinaz23
    martinaz23
    Registered User Posts: 18
    i think the best place to start is w3 schools website ;) and also good reference
  • Limbo
    Limbo
    Established Norm Posts: 27,307
    Really clever trick.

    CSS Image Rollover Map ~ Europe ~ Sample

    Could be applied in many ways.
  • Naatan
    Naatan
    Web Developer Posts: 210
    2 words, float & clear :)
  • herkalees
    herkalees
    Semantics, yay. Posts: 1,612
    CSS-only sites are quite overrated. What's the point, really? Maybe when CSS3 is widely available then you can do CSS-only sites because CSS3 is supposed to support div columns (something not currently available in CSS2).

    For the time being, you want to stick to hybrid sites. Use as much CSS for site layout as possible but use tables for tabular data and the such. Plus, doing all of those hacks to get things working on all web browsers - that's just for the birds.

    You can check out my site, eyepinch.com. View the source. You can see that most all of my site is in DIV/CSS. Only certain pages use tables - hence, only use it when it's needed.
    That is just being lazy. Aside from tabular data (because it's supposed to be in tables), there isn't a design out there that cannot be made without tables.
  • TheTigerHobbes
    TheTigerHobbes
    Registered User Posts: 28
    Ok, stupid question time. I realize that this has probably been answered a bunch of times and in a bunch of ways, but bear with me.

    I admit that I haven't really started to get into CSS. At this point, I use it to style things like font faces and whatnot as a supplement, but I do most of my sites in Flash or HTML.

    I'm not really big on CSS as it applies to making a site super flexible. After I've spent a long time working on a meticulous design, I don't want people messing it up by scaling things or changing the layout of the content or anything. I tend to put things where I put them for a reason, and I like the idea o f them staying there.

    So my stupid question is, what's the huge deal about CSS? I hear all the time about how amazing it is and how everyone needs to start using it. But when it comes right down to it, bearing in mind what I've said above, how will my websites be benefiting from it?

    If I can get some honest, helpful answers, I'm definitely up to start giving it a shot.
  • Larixk
    Larixk
    Senior Member Posts: 1,493
    To me it's all about seperating mark-up from content:
    - what happens when the site needs a redesign in 2 years: In stead of having to recode all of the pages a switch of css file will do the trick.
    - your pages will still be well browsable without mark-up. This improves SEO and accesibility.
    - It feels right. It feels structured.
  • TheTigerHobbes
    TheTigerHobbes
    Registered User Posts: 28
    I saw that the CSS Zen Garden was recommended earlier. As a beginner at coding sites entirely with CSS, is that a good place to start?
  • herkalees
    herkalees
    Semantics, yay. Posts: 1,612
    So my stupid question is, what's the huge deal about CSS?
    Coding without CSS is like writing the same email to 300 of your friends without being able to use the CC feature of your email program, nor the copy > paste ability of your operating system.

    It's just a waste of time to not use CSS.
  • pgo
    pgo
    Senior Member Posts: 12,162
    Google is great.

    CSS design benefits

    In all seriousness, building sites with a proper separation between content (HTML) and presentation (CSS) has been the de facto method for professional web designers and developers for at least 4 years now. Zeldman published his seminal book in 2001.
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