[aaron]

charging per page is stupid
"a page" means nothing at all

it's like a building company telling someone they'll charge them £50k to build "a house" and then waiting around for the spec to unfold.

[Luke Redpath]

Originally Posted by hawken

I still can't understand how people can charge per hour or page.

Methinks it's the business structure you guys have that give you annoyance from clients. If you want to give them baby food pricing, why not charge a standard fee?

For example, I'm working on a large site at the moment, however as it's done with a DB and other such trickery, I'm just charging a set fee with no breakdown of costs. Why waste your time with the client saying such bolloxs as "Oh well we don't need a contact form so that'll save us £25 from the site", all that shite should be bundled into one cost.

Honestly, reading some of this (and a plethora of similar threads) it looks like you guys bring the pain unto yourselves.

Charging an hourly rate is a perfectly acceptable and normal business practice.

[seen.to]

Originally Posted by hawken

I still can't understand how people can charge per hour or page.

Methinks it's the business structure you guys have that give you annoyance from clients. If you want to give them baby food pricing, why not charge a standard fee?

For example, I'm working on a large site at the moment, however as it's done with a DB and other such trickery, I'm just charging a set fee with no breakdown of costs. Why waste your time with the client saying such bolloxs as "Oh well we don't need a contact form so that'll save us £25 from the site", all that shite should be bundled into one cost.

Honestly, reading some of this (and a plethora of similar threads) it looks like you guys bring the pain unto yourselves.

I've never charged by the hour before either, though I do have hourly fees that I use myself when pricing quotes. Above was the first time I quoted by the hour for a 2 hour job, that wasn't even design related, in case it turned into 4 hours.

Actually I do also quote an hourly rate for 'overages' over and above the terms set out in my contract with a client.

[lucidcreations]

We base our price on an hour hourly rates but the client is given a final price with a schedule to launch. That price stays the same if its done quicker or we over run. Unless the overrun is due to feature creep from the client.

[Limbo]

Unless the overrun is due to feature creep from the client

This is a common occurance. We are producing a website for a client who just turned around and asked for good placement in Google and MSN. I'm guessing our, up till now , ostriches have spoken to a geek who adivsed them that wthis would be advantageous. They of course think that can be achived in minutes - the feedback surprised them - 6 months to get out of the sandbox was not what they wantd to hear

[pgo]

A common occurance as well, Limbo, as far as I know. Everyone wants to be number 1 on Google - I just tell them it ain't gonna happen anytime soon. It takes months or years to get a decent ranking. I launched a pro-bono site and someone emailed me the next day "Why aren't we on Google?!"

I wouldn't charge by hour or by page. However, I'd base my quote on an estimate of how long I think the project will take multiplied by my confidential hourly rate - plus an arbitrary amount added depending on any number of circumstances. Also, any overtime due to "feature creep" is an added hourly charge (if it results in me working harder) - if I simply have to wait a month for content, I'll charge them for the hour it takes to plug in that content - and maybe a little extra for self-satisfaction. Also charge extra for "unforeseen expenses" that the client requests and are not factored into the agreement.

Anyone want to share their approximate hourly rate? I haven't set one in stone - since I'm just starting out I was thinking $15/hr - or maybe $20 if I don't get a lot of arguments against my quotes.

[Limbo]

Sometimes charging by page has it's advantages - If they go over their spend they have to pay you more Doesn't do much for client relationships though...

I had to charge by page this time, as the copy was not written, the brief was sketchy and requirements were verbal - All I knew was that I needed to get 3 sites
written in a week (aside from the day job) So completing the templates ahead of recieving the copy was essential. Not my prefered workflow but the money was good.

[Luke Redpath]

We operate a set hourly rate which is currently £49.50 (about $86) + VAT.

We work out how long a job is and use our hourly rate to work out the cost of the job. But we are transparent about hour hourly rate and if that means clients going "ok we'll not do this to save us some money" that is fine with us - doesn't really happen much though.

[Limbo]

Anyone want to share their approximate hourly rate? I haven't set one in stone - since I'm just starting out I was thinking $15/hr - or maybe $20 if I don't get a lot of arguments against my quotes.

That seems very cheap. I have seen what you can do so I'd double that figure - unless you are portfolio building.

£15 ($30ish) phr is quite inexpensive after overheads.

Word of warning - if you get a lot of work via word of mouth upping you prices once you have larger portfoilio is not going to be easy...

[pgo]

How many people are "we", Luke?

EDIT: @Limbo - Well, thanks for the compliment. Right now, I'm porfolio building. I'm going to do a project or two through my father's marketing communications company - which I'll charge a low-ish rate - since I'm working through him and he's paying me directly (he'll work into the bill for CompanyX the costs for whatever I do).

Then I'll up my rate for more independent projects. Thanks for the heads up - I never thought about the fact that the ability to up your rates would diminish as you got more clients, but that makes a lot of sense.

[Luke Redpath]

Currently, excluding the FD, there are 7 of us. www.lastfield.com

For the most part, I've been tied up in the Juice work mentioned on our home page for almost the past 2 years now (lead/core developer). Its amazing how many setbacks a project can suffer, but we are almost ready for the trial rollout at last! Can't wait.

[tomson]

Originally Posted by pgo

Anyone want to share their approximate hourly rate? I haven't set one in stone - since I'm just starting out I was thinking $15/hr - or maybe $20 if I don't get a lot of arguments against my quotes.

For freelance work I charge £25 an hour or a day rate of £160-200.

When I work for agencies i get charged out to the client at anywhere from £40 to £120 an hour.

[hawken]

I think day rates are sensible to clients, my quotes are often dictated to me by clients "we wanna pay you this to do this" I often accept if it works out at around or over £200 a day. Freelance work often brings me more income than "working for the man" ever did, without the headaches of project managers, creaping deadlines, useless design changes and so on.

I tryed to set myself a target for my day rate based on my own experience. Japanese clients are much more respecting and unquestioning when dealing with projects, they often just either accept or refuse, without asking for day rates or other such information. They assume you have everything under control and will do 'em proud.

My best explanation is that "you're paying for my accumilated knowledge, not the time it takes me. If I were inexperienced and charged by the hour, it would take longer and cost you more"

[Dusteh]

A set fee for a site followed by hourly billing for all the extras that they suddenly remember they wanted all along, but forgot to mention when you gave them the first costing.

[lucidcreations]

Me: Just calling to find out how you're doing with the content for your site.
Cliunt: Content?
Me: Yes I need something to base the design on.
Cliunt: Umm, you know that list of links we sent you for rival sites?
Me: Yes.....
Cliunt: Can you just copy the content from there.

Sigh.

[Dusteh]

Is it just me or is content the most annoying part of the whole process? Forget arguments over payment, costing, design - its getting the client to actually give you something to work with thats the hardest part.

I have had to build websites using about 5 lines of text - no joke.

[emil]

Originally Posted by lucidcreations

Me: Just calling to find out how you're doing with the content for your site.
Cliunt: Content?
Me: Yes I need something to base the design on.
Cliunt: Umm, you know that list of links we sent you for rival sites?
Me: Yes.....
Cliunt: Can you just copy the content from there.

Sigh.

I know, I have a site on hold for about a couple of months, because the client hasn't had the time to put a couple of lines down about themseleves.

What I charge (for freelance work) is around 250-300 euros/site (design, xHTML, CSS)

[Guevara]

Have a corporate rebranding to do - the following thesaurus entry is their 'brief'...*bands head on desk repeatedly*

Uplifting: empowering, energetic, inspiring, optimistic, educational, influential
Facilitating: enabling, networking, flexible, easy going, results oriented
Entrepreneurial: inventive, dynamic, resourceful, can do attitude
Dedicated: loyal, purposeful, supportive, fair, faithful, service, humane

[lucidcreations]

nice...

It's ok they've called to give me the go ahead without the content, they'll provide it later. They just don't understand do they.

[cam]

Originally Posted by emilpaun

What I charge (for freelance work) is around 250-300 euros/site (design, xHTML, CSS)

That'd be stupidly cheap for here - i'm guessing that's average in Romania?