[Chino]

I seem to attract insane clients. I mean, I have really bad luck with people.

Here is the story.

A client of mine contracted me and we set a price for a site. Requirements were set and we went from there. Throughout the next few months we were stuck on the landing page, the client kept adding features and change backgrounds and this and that. It was borderline obsessive compulsive. Throughout this process I kept the client updated with the budget. I had also designed a logo which was NOT part of the web design estimate.

I received a retainer fee towards the budget and had received another small payment, as well.

Long story short, the budget was reached and the client was still adding stuff to the landing page and this and that and I explained where we were and the client wanted the RAW files so he could continue the work on its own or have another, cheaper person do it. I explained that's not the practice and ultimately caved and agreed to please the client. I stated I would provide the raw files and all other html/css files I had completed, although it was only the landing page, finally.

The client said, "All right" and that was the last I had heard of the client for some time.

After a ridiculous amount of time, after emails and phone calls I brought the claim that I would need to seek legal action to conclude this relationship.

Well, this got some attention, that's for sure.

The client threatened a counter-suit and also said they would contact my employer about my breach of contract and how I was working during their business hours. Both of which are not true. I had taken a phone call or two, sent and email or two and only met with the client during lunch for a super short meeting.

In the client's threats was the threat to subpoena my emails. How on earth is this legal? I did sign an NDA but the nature of this project is in NO WAY unique and has been done a billion times over. There are no trade secrets involved, whatsoever.

Is that possible for them to do such things? I'm not really worried about my employment but the fact that they threatened my job when my every move was in my client's best interest, all the time. Not during my day job but in the evenings when I worked. I notified them of the nearing budget and did every exhaustive change they asked for.

I understand we took forever on this ONE PAGE but it's not my fault. I can't control how many times the client wants to add new things in. This is crazy.

We did have a contract in place that stated they would pay for changes to the original outline, which was changed multiple times over.

I'm at a loss. Any suggestions? I can't believe people can be like this. It's unbelievable.

[herkalees]

Step 1: Call it a loss, tell the client to screw, and know that it could've cost you a LOT of money for legal services.

Step 2: Never give the client ANYTHING they haven't paid for. If they haven't paid for it, it's not theirs.

Step 3: See step 1.

[Chino]

I'd love to do just that. I'm just tired of getting screwed over.

Is there a place that outlines what the client can and can not do? I find it ridiculous that the client could contact my employer when they have absolutely nothing to do with this.

I'm wondering if small claims court would be worth it. $45 is all, I believe.

[herkalees]

Are we talking thousands of dollars here?

[haku]

Small claims is not worth it for $45, unless you are the type of person that cannot let something lie because of the principle of the matter.

You may end up getting your $45, but the headaches involved will probably not be worth it.

I'd probably leave it, and in the future not give clients files. You could maybe state in your future contracts that if agreement cannot be reached, half the retainer will be refunded or something like that. That way you aren't left with nothing for your time.

[woodss]

Your client is a twat, pure and simple - fire them and refuse to deal with them in any way shape or form.

They sounds like some complete scumbag to screw you over for 45 dollars tbh.

[cam]

Didn't he mean small claims court would cost him $45?

[CharmingMan]

$45 is pennies mate, not anywhere near worth the hassle of going the lagal route.

Put it down to experience and learn how to recognise these types from the off.

Also supply a terms of business for them to sign that clearly sets out the way you intend to operate. That way you at least have some protection against things like this happening.

Aiga have a brilliant template available for download.

http://www.aiga.org/resources/conten...reement_07.pdf

[herkalees]

Originally Posted by cam

Didn't he mean small claims court would cost him $45?

Yeah, I'm wondering this as well.

Either way, walk away and chalk it up to a hard lesson learned. If the client is threatening that much, let them win and vow to stop it from ever happening again.

[Stmeister]

Small claims court?

If they owe you less than $500 I would walk away.

Unless you can get on Peoples Court and have your designs shown on television.

I am still out over $2000 from a job I completed, it would cost me more in time, effort, and legal fees to ever get the money, so I just moved on.

Get your money up front and when they request changes tell them how much more that will cost and when you receive the money do the work.

Sometimes you become so familiar with a person you forget what they are capable of.

[seen.to]

Originally Posted by Chino

I stated I would provide the raw files and all other html/css files I had completed, although it was only the landing page, finally.

The client said, "All right" and that was the last I had heard of the client for some time.

After a ridiculous amount of time, after emails and phone calls I brought the claim that I would need to seek legal action to conclude this relationship.

So you agreed to send the files, had been paid, and was being left alone by the client? THEN you decided to continue emailing and phoning the client so that you may conclude an already concluded relationship?

Am I reading that right?

[Chino]

Sorry, it would cost $45 to file a claim. The amount is less than a thousand but the client claims they're going to counter for a major portion of what they've already paid for, that would make me out well over a thousand.

The thing is, the client thinks that they can take 30 hours nit-picking the first page and think I'm going to create the remaining pages and still charge the same amount. It's clearly stated in my contract that changes not in the original outline would add to the cost.

I just don't know where people get off reaming freelancers for everything they can.

[Chino]

Originally Posted by seen.to

So you agreed to send the files, had been paid, and was being left alone by the client? THEN you decided to continue emailing and phoning the client so that you may conclude an already concluded relationship?

Am I reading that right?

I have not been paid my full amount, the last thing said is that I would send the files to the client AFTER I was paid in full. I have been paid just over half of what is owed.

The client agreed and after this... crickets, for almost 2 months.

I tried emailing to conclude our business, nothing. I tried calling, as well, nothing. Only after I said "If I don't hear from you soon to conclude business I will have to take legal action" did I get a response. One that took things beyond a business relationship, threatening to inform my day job that I was doing personal business on their time.

[Dusteh]

Can you speak to your current employer about it? Not only would this mean they are aware of the client in case the mad client should actually contact them, but they may have some advice for you on the matter.

As for the threats, its just a counter to stop you taking legal action. Give them a flattened PSD, tell them thats the only source file and let them go fuck themselves with it.

[herkalees]

well... if you have a contract... you should be able to fight it.

[seen.to]

Let it go and chalk it up to experience. It's already causing you more trouble than it is financially worth.

Always include a number of comps and revisions in your contract along with penalties to be incurred if a client exceeds these limitations - when the client exceeds these tell them that you will need to receive the newly incurred costs before proceeding. Never give the client more than you have already received payment for.

I've had to 'fire' awkward clients in the past, it's just one of those things.

[Chino]

Well, it has been a PITA and can't believe they'd do such things.

As far as talking with my employer, I've thought about it and feel comfortable doing so since I know the legal dept. really, really well.

That's good advice, putting revisions and number of comps in the contract to curtail crap like this from happening again. Nice, thanks for the advice guys.

I should let it go, I just have a hard time with people taking advantage of me and thinking they can treat people like that.

GAH!

[cjgraphix]

if you went as far as 'threaten legal action' you better be ready to back it up. Legal action as a way of negotiation is low, for anyone.

People have tried to threaten legal action against me. All it gets them is a letter from my lawyer, a resignation letter, a final bill, and a list of things I will deliver after payment is made in full. 99% of the time I never hear from the client again. But if the client pays, then they get what they want.

You should have just left it alone. Client wouldn't get files, you wouldn't get final payment... but now you're in a bigger mess and wasted more of your time. Has it really been worth it?

[Chino]

Originally Posted by cjgraphix

You should have just left it alone. Client wouldn't get files, you wouldn't get final payment... but now you're in a bigger mess and wasted more of your time. Has it really been worth it?

Left it alone? I'm not in business to use my time to do work and not get paid for it. I will try to communicate with the client as best I can. The last thing said before I mentioned legal action is that I would send an invoice, they would pay it, and I would send the files. I tried many times to get hold of them but never succeeded. Naturally, the next course of action after being ignored is letting them know my legal rights and legal course of action, if their ignorance continues.

Since the last email from the client, which was a week ago, I, once again, have tried to call the client and work things out as well as emailed them explaining the situation, with no success. Explaining that I want to help them in any way I can, but I can't do so if they ignore me.

My email to them that mentioned legal action was not a threat, it was my next course of action if I did not hear from them. I'm fully prepared to do what I have to do but since the client became very hostile and very unprofessional and made ridiculous claims and accusations, I'd rather not deal with them. My steps in getting what is rightfully mine was not unprofessional or uncalled for.

[cjgraphix]

Originally Posted by Chino

Since the last email from the client, which was a week ago, I, once again, have tried to call the client and work things out as well as emailed them explaining the situation, with no success.

Then your only course of action now is legal.

I would think your time would be better spent finding good clients than trying to squeeze another thousand dollars out of a client you will probably never deal with again.

So again, has it all been worth it?