[horse]

Existing web client (previously paid on time etc.) now owes me for a print project. Deadline was supposed to be beginning of December last year for a 50 page brochure. I worked crazy hard to get the brochure finished by the deadline for the printers and then clients failed to get final content for me. So, they missed their deadline for the printers. They gave me no explanation nor did they let me know when they would be supplying me with the final content. Printers kept hassling me as well because they were unable to get in touch with the client.

Mid January, after being ignored for 2 weeks, the man (husband/wife duo) told me they had split up and the lady was going to take over the company. So, I contacted her asking when she wanted to continue the brochure and also if I could invoice her for work completed so far. This way I would stay happy and interested in the project and also ensure that she would finish the project. She said she still wants to do the brochure and agreed to this and said 'send the invoice and I'll pop a check in the post'. 3 weeks went by with no payment so I emailed her a follow up email. She ignored it. I phoned her and left a message. No call back. I phoned the husband who said he had nothing to do with it anymore and said keep calling her. I have left several phone messages plus another follow up email. Nothing.

At first I thought this was fine because eventually I would finish the brochure for her and get paid the whole thing upon completion. Now, I think she has scrapped the project totally (the printer has dropped them) and has no intention of paying me for the work. The brochure is 90% done and I spent 3 weeks including weekends of hard work in November doing this job. Even if she hasn't decided to scrap the project, she's ignoring me totally. She has also changed all the ftp passwords to her website which I designed and maintain for her. So she has blocked me out of her website for some strange reason.

Is the next step a legal letter? I don't have a lawyer. Or should I just keep on trying to get in touch with her. Any suggestions, please.

[Narate]

Didi you have a contract/written agreement?

[horse]

no, she was an existing client who, up to then, was a good client and paid up straight away.

[pedge]

Originally Posted by horse

Is the next step a legal letter? I don't have a lawyer. Or should I just keep on trying to get in touch with her. Any suggestions, please.

You don't need a lawyer - try http://www.thomashiggins.com/ - they handle my late payers for me; costs £2.00 + vat for a solicitors letter and have a web-based management system for tracking letters.

They won't take it to court unless you say so and often the letter is enough to scare the client into at least getting back in touch with you. If you want to take it legal, issue a small claims form yourself (not via the above site) as it will cost you £30 instead of over £100.

You need to make sure you know who to bill (down to the exact spelling of their name and address) - if they're an individual then they risk a negative credit rating if the county court judgement goes against them so they'll want to settle.

At the end of the day they asked you to produce work for them; contract or no contract you have proof that they commissioned the work (i.e. the files, copy & content, right?) and that will stand in your favour. This doesn't mean you don't need a contract - they're invaluable - but will help your case.

Another thing which may help is getting someone else (preferably older and more authoritative sounding than yourself) to call chasing up payment on behalf of your accounts dept - that makes it more difficult to fob you off with a matey conversation as the other person won't/must not take any shit from them (it worked for me and got a bill paid within days when my father-in-law called them!).

Get this person to leave voicemail messages stating that if its not resolved by the end of the week you will instruct solicitors to begin proceedings which may affect their personal/company credit rating if it goes against them. Then, at the end of the week if you hear nothing, use that website above to send them a letter. If nothing happens within 14 days, still chase them up via phone & email and make another call saying you're now issuing a county court judgement - wait a day or so to hear from them.

If nothing happens, go to https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk and start proceedings - it will cost you £30 but you can claim that back. If they don't dispute or issue a defence within so many days then you can request judgement by default and that will probably go in your favour and they'll get (a) a black mark on their credit rating and (b) you legally sending in the bailiffs (if you want to).

Believe me; they'll try to get out of paying by hoping you'll give up after ages of trying; but if you use the above method (as I've used) then it will rattle their cage (especially if a sole proprietor) and you've more chance of getting your money back. If you leave it, then you're the loser.

In my opinion its worth the £30 for the small claims court as at least you've got a chance of affecting their credit rating which will make it difficult for them to get credit, loans or a large client who credit-checks before entering a contract with them...

Hope that helps - good luck!

[oli]

Good advice Pedge

[horse]

Thanks very much for your advice, Pedge. I agree the next step is a letter and I am on it now! Thanks for the links too - you've been very helpful.

[datahound]

I would take issue with the husband bailing ship. If he was part of the business when the work was comissioned I would hold him legally responsible and if he is the only one responding to you threaten him with a legal proceedings as well. It may put pressure on him to put pressure on her.

If they have a cat issue it with a legal letter for luck.

I think what Pedge has said is very good, get a legal company to issue the letter to both of them. Legal letters are scary.

Only problem I can see is that if they are going through a nasty split neither of them maybe thinking straight and may not give a shit about much else. If this is the case superglue in the door locks is very satisfying.

[pedge]

If you don't know who to go for, go for both and see who shits themselves first (they're probably the one who knows they're responsible) - worth finding out for an additional £2.00 for a letter...

[pedge]

BTW, don't back down - if the customer wants to settle thats fine (obviously) but let them know that now the wheel's in motion they'll only stop once the bills paid. That means none of this "if you stop now I'll pay you next week" (they won't) - just say "sure, if you clear the bill next week thats fine but please be aware that until its paid, I can't stop the legal action".

Get on your invoice: "Title to the goods remain the property of (YOUR COMPANY NAME) until paid in full." which will mean you can take it back if they don't pay (no good in your case but without this legally you're knackered.

You can also charge interest on the amount owed - check google for statutory interest on monies owed...

[flunky]

I was just doing a Google search for advice on unpaid invoices and what website pops up! Superb advice from Pedge and I will be following it to sort this cocksucker of a client. Cheers Pedge.

[CactusWoman]

I came across this site when searching for 'unpaid invoices'! I too have a client who I've been friendly with for some time now. I'm a copywriter and have written a stack of sales letters, etc for him and, more recently, a website. He's paid the website designer but not me and, like you, is completely ignoring my emails, etc etc although I know he's been receiving them because, curiously, he's been clicking on 'send receipt'!

Also, curiously, I heard through the gravevine that he's delighted with my copy but hates the web design which is nothing to do with me, yet he's paid the designer and not me!!!

(The 'gravevine' is also ignoring my emails now, too, and ironically THEY owe me money for some half-finished copywriting which they claim to be delighted with but may not use because their marketing message and target audience have completely changed since I wrote it MONTHS ago, so it's no longer relevant... NOT MY FAULT, HEY!!!!!)

What's mega annoying is the sheer amount of EXTRA work I put into this job which I didn't charge for (and the 'gravevine's' job as well). I spent AGES on the phone offering advice, etc. And, boy, can he talk!!!! (Except, of course, when I'm trying to get hold of him for payment...)

The next stage, as one of your replies suggests, is to get someone more authoritative to call him - I usually get my husband to do this! I have also used Thos Higgins in the past and, yes, may use them again as I found them effective.

With a client that you've been very friendly with it's so easy to get personal about this and emotional but I always try to stand back, remaining objective and professional where possible!!! But, privately, it does MAKE ME MAD, and rightly so!!!

Oh yes, and I've taken screenshots of the live website just in case he removes it and claims it never went live...

PS For all new clients I now ask for payment IN ADVANCE for all jobs under 100GBP. Those over this amount I ask for 50% up front and 50% on completion making it clear that if payment isn't received within 7 days I will charge a 10% admin fee. I also make it clear that intellectual property of the copywriting or whatever doesn't transfer to the client until the invoice has been paid. Most seem happy with this arrangement and those which aren't... well... would I want to work for them???

[pedge]

Originally Posted by CactusWoman

With a client that you've been very friendly with it's so easy to get personal about this and emotional but I always try to stand back, remaining objective and professional where possible!!! But, privately, it does MAKE ME MAD, and rightly so!!!

Exactly. And that is why I said:

Originally Posted by Pedge

Another thing which may help is getting someone else (preferably older and more authoritative sounding than yourself) to call chasing up payment on behalf of your accounts dept - that makes it more difficult to fob you off with a matey conversation as the other person won't/must not take any shit from them (it worked for me and got a bill paid within days when my father-in-law called them!).

Get your chosen chaser-upper to phone them everyday to get payment and if they phone you to complain of being harrassed for payment(!) (happened to me, believe it or not), just say "nothing to do with me - its the accounts dept, deal with them" and leave it at that.

Good luck!

[Ruby]

Really good advice from pedge thank you. I am still chasing payment for 8 invoices (in Business - "help-8-invoices-unpaid-solicitors-letter-next-step")
I have done the solicitors letters, the client replied to the solicitor and promised to have all invoices paid by 3rd July. Guess what, still no payment and now the chase up solicitor letter has come back 'no longer know at this address'. I am sure this is not the case and client is just messing around.

So, I can only see the the next step is to go through the court using Money Claim online. Has anyone ever done this themselves?

Also, as I think the client is winding up his one man band company, can I issue against him personally and the company?

Another option I have been told about is a Final Demand, or sueing for infringment of copyright. Does anyone know anything about this????

[pedge]

I've used moneyclaim online and its as easy as it can be. You need as much documented evidence as possible and keep it factual and not emotional.

Is he winding up his company or going bust? If just winding it down he needs to honour his debts.

If he's a limited company then you're 'limited' to issuing against the company only unless he's signed a contract with you where he has a personal guarantee which means if the limited company goes bust then you can go for him personally, but that's normally only done if leasing equipment etc so I don't think that would cover you.

If he's a sole trader then he is personally liable for all debts (he is his business) so he can't 'wind up' - if you issue a small claims and the judgement goes against him (which means he's at fault and has to pay you) then he will have a CCJ (County Court Judgement) against him and that will affect his credit rating etc which will make getting mortgages and loans etc more difficult.

Best thing to do if you're not sure of his company status is go to WebCHeck - Select and Access Company Information and type in his company name. This will list a load of businesses using similar names and he should be there - if he is, he's limited, if not he's most likely a sole trader and you've got him by the goolies - make him aware a CCJ against him could affect his credit rating etc and ask if he wants to go down that difficult route or take the easy route and pay you for your work.

Finally, make sure you have evidence of everything - as much as you can - before going to a county court, keep it factual, include dates of calls etc, print out emails and put it all together. Unless he pulls a rabbit out of the hat, you'll be ok.

[hawken]

it's a good old thread to dig up. Lots of good advice here.

I always charge 50% upfront with a contract detailing the work agreement and address details of the client. Signed in blood. Appears to work so far, bar two cunnies, who I will see in Hell.

If someone doesn't want to pay an upfront fee, they are very unlikely to pay you at all.

[pedge]

TIP: If all else fails, a baseball bat usually encourages prompt payment.

[dexter.ss]

I have had this problem before, you send a reminder letter for 7 days then a another letter for 30 days telling them they will go to court. Then a summons to court after that time, then they will show up or pay you.

[mikie]

You could try outsourcing invoice chasing to Cashflow Protector. You upload details of your outstanding invoices to the website and they chase for payment without upsetting the client. They were featured on BBC2's Working Lunch last week.

[Arties]

Get even and move on.

[mancat]

I have been doing work for a printer and several of his customers. The printer guy came across as a bit of a wide-boy and I should have trusted my instincts. Anyway, he owes me £230 and I sent him 2-3 invoices over the last 3 months, plus numerous phone conversations in which he promised to pay me by 'the end of the week' but he is 'moving house' so has been busy. The printer guy is trying to say some of the work I did for him is no longer needed by some of his customers, which has nothing to do with me of course. Originally, I kept my cool as I wanted some of the money at least but it appears I won't even get that now. I didn't sign any contracts as each job was very small individually but have email correspondence and the original artwork of course.

He has now asked me to correspond in email only (which he is not replying to) and he no longer answers his phone from my number or witheld numbers. So my question is, as well as threatening him with a small claims court am I within my rights to pursue his customers for the unpaid work? I know they won't pay but the threat of losing several customers for the sake of £230 may help him see clearer! At least embarrassing him in front of his customers and letting them know what a lowlife he is would give me some satisfaction!

Cheers,

Rob