Web Design Forums

ubay25 · 10-09-2005, 13:07

Hi! I just started my career as a Web Designer and just got my first client. They already have a website but only needs to change the design to look more professional and user friendly. The content should all be the same.

Now here's the details about the project:

Number of web pages:
Around 50 pages (but almost all pages will use same template design)

The site should have:

Flyout Menus
Flash Animations
Design of new graphics

In addition, they want a fixed price for the whole project, but I am planning to have extra charges for new graphic designs, flash animation, etc.
If its not much trouble can you also send me a sample invoice of the breakdown of charges, that would really be helpful!
Thank you very much in advance, I really hope professionals like you guys could spare sometime to help me so that I can make a good start on my fresh career. Hope to hear from you soon.

mx · 10-09-2005, 19:03

£1163.82

briljant oranje · 10-09-2005, 20:01

£1163.00

we're cheap.

Luke Redpath · 10-09-2005, 20:28

Ask yourself this...how long will it take you? Work that out, then multiply it by an hourly rate.

How do you decide on an hourly rate? Look around your local area - see what others are charging. You don't say where you are from, but I'd say for a freelancer with little experience like yourself, somewhere in the £20 per hour is reasonable.

Transmogrify · 10-09-2005, 20:35

£1.99

seen.to · 10-09-2005, 20:46

Impossible to say without seeing any of your past work. If you suck it will be a lot less than if you know what you are doing.

ubay25 · 11-09-2005, 05:24

Thanks for the reply guys! I'm from Cambridge, Cambs. And the client is based local also but they are quite a big company, they have branches all over England. Actually I've already done some web designs from where I come from, here's a sample -- www.hifiplusasia.com -- this was the latest project I've done.
Anyway thanks for giving me an ctual figure, now I can have an idea and charge my client accordingly. But if you think it should be higher/lower than that please do tell me so I can adjust.
Thanks a lot guys!!!

ubay25 · 11-09-2005, 05:27

oh! can you also give me rough figures on how much should I charge for making graphic designs and flash animation to go to the site. Thanks!!!

d*d · 11-09-2005, 06:38

no no no, that actual figure was a piss take, how did you charge the hi-fi plus Asia site?, you seem to have an awful lot of skills (flash, javascript, html)without any actual work experience.
Do what Luke said work out an hourly rate and multiply it by how long it will take you.

ubay25 · 11-09-2005, 08:42

I did hifi plus asia when I was still in the Philippines, unfortunately labor fees there are quite cheap (that's why I moved here in UK! hehehe). Yeah, I really think I already have excellent skills in web development and would just like to know the proper fees that I should be charging. Thanks for the advice, I will work my charges out based on what you said.
By the way, should I also make additional charges if I have to make graphic designs & flash animations for the site or should it be all included?

pgo · 11-09-2005, 08:44

I would say it should all be included in one lump sum. Makes it easier for the client (and you).

Grondie · 11-09-2005, 22:15

Include it all, but break up the proposal so it seems like they're getting a good value for the money.

With a project like this, it's important to have a rough guess as to what you can charge your client without making them squirm. It's also important to take into consideration who you are, and how they percieve you. It's one thing if you're a top-tier studio with fortune 500 clientele, and it's another if you're Johnny up the street with a thin portfolio of past work.

Here's how I work these things out - I come up with a hard number I feel comfortable with - take $2,850 for instance. Then I assign myself an hourly rate that seems reasonable, dependent on the client's expectations. Then I create a proposal, projecting my time onto the following steps:

• Content Evaluation
• Research and Conceptualization
• Resource Collection and Production
• Content Structure
• Production

So, in the above example, let's assume that we want to charge $50 an hour for our work. That means 57 hours of work. I'd create a proposal assigning a time estimate to each of these categories totaling up to 57. At least half of your hours should be under "Production", since that covers everything from Flash to Backend stuff.

In the end, you'll be doing lots of work on the site, so there's nothing wrong with demonstrating that on an invoice. It can be a turn off if your client sees a proposal that's just a page with your monogram and a big number.

In any case, ask yourself if this client is likely to refer others. If so, then give yourself some breathing room with in your estimate. If not, then go for the gusto, but keep in mind that you shouldn't superceed the impression you've made on these folks.

ubay25 · 12-09-2005, 05:26

Thank you all for that brilliant advice! I've got a good idea now and working out on the quotation for the client. Hope everything goes well! Thanks a lot!!!

Grondie · 12-09-2005, 10:33

Glad I could help. Good luck!

One more thing - if this site will require maintenance, you may want to go on a monthly retainer. That makes the most sense over the long haul.

Luke Redpath · 12-09-2005, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubay25

IYeah, I really think I already have excellent skills in web development a

Well, anybody could say that

Lets be honest, the design of the site you posted wasn't too great, but fair enough, perhaps you aren't a designer (if you are a developer it might be worth hooking up with a designer and passing jobs back and forth).

The underlying HTML is a complete mess so there is certainly much to improve here. Valid XHTML, CSS based layouts, accessibility etc.

What server-side languages do you use?

emil · 12-09-2005, 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Redpath

The underlying HTML is a complete mess so there is certainly much to improve here. Valid XHTML, CSS based layouts, accessibility etc.

I charge royalties

ubay25 · 12-09-2005, 11:28

Yeah, Luke I agree, my last project was quite still a mess, but it's not that bad, right? Promise I'll try better next time

And I use CSS now everytime, hehehe!
I only use PHP as a server-side language together with MySQL for my new projects.

I have already passed the quotation, and I think they seem quite interested. Hope I get the job, I'm really excited about this one, coz it's my first here in UK.
Thank you guys again, your help are much appreciated. I am glad I found this site and meet all you good people. Thanks!!!

Grondie · 12-09-2005, 11:46

It's a bit messy, but it's not that bad. The first site I did as a paying gig was a complete joke.

ubay25 · 12-09-2005, 14:23

Grondie, your site is awesome, all made in Flash! Good job!!!

Grondie · 12-09-2005, 14:28

Well, the only reason my website is Flash-based is because I can't code my way out of a wet paper bag. It's nice to be "graphic", but I sure could use some HTML/CSS lessons.

10-09-2005, 13:07	#1 (permalink)
ubay25 I wana dip my balls in it Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 32	Help! How much should I charge for this client? Hi! I just started my career as a Web Designer and just got my first client. They already have a website but only needs to change the design to look more professional and user friendly. The content should all be the same. Now here's the details about the project: Number of web pages: Around 50 pages (but almost all pages will use same template design) The site should have: Flyout Menus Flash Animations Design of new graphics In addition, they want a fixed price for the whole project, but I am planning to have extra charges for new graphic designs, flash animation, etc. If its not much trouble can you also send me a sample invoice of the breakdown of charges, that would really be helpful! Thank you very much in advance, I really hope professionals like you guys could spare sometime to help me so that I can make a good start on my fresh career. Hope to hear from you soon.

10-09-2005, 20:28	#4 (permalink)
Luke Redpath Barney army! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London Posts: 696	Ask yourself this...how long will it take you? Work that out, then multiply it by an hourly rate. How do you decide on an hourly rate? Look around your local area - see what others are charging. You don't say where you are from, but I'd say for a freelancer with little experience like yourself, somewhere in the £20 per hour is reasonable. __________________ Luke Redpath .::. Software Engineer .::. Reevoo - Real Reviews From Real Customers

10-09-2005, 20:46	#6 (permalink)
seen.to unusual suspect ™ Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: DE, USA Posts: 2,675	Impossible to say without seeing any of your past work. If you suck it will be a lot less than if you know what you are doing. __________________ [[proverbs and quotes]] [[blog]] [[work]] [[photowebby - some photo's by me]]

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10-09-2005, 19:03	#2 (permalink)
mx fucksocks™ Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: in the boosh Posts: 1,578	£1163.82

10-09-2005, 20:01	#3 (permalink)
briljant oranje Keep it foolish yeah? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Not Leeds Posts: 572	£1163.00 we're cheap.

10-09-2005, 20:35	#5 (permalink)
Transmogrify Rough Creep Arse™ Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 1,894	£1.99

11-09-2005, 05:24	#7 (permalink)
ubay25 I wana dip my balls in it Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 32	Thanks for the reply guys! I'm from Cambridge, Cambs. And the client is based local also but they are quite a big company, they have branches all over England. Actually I've already done some web designs from where I come from, here's a sample -- www.hifiplusasia.com -- this was the latest project I've done. Anyway thanks for giving me an ctual figure, now I can have an idea and charge my client accordingly. But if you think it should be higher/lower than that please do tell me so I can adjust. Thanks a lot guys!!!

11-09-2005, 05:27	#8 (permalink)
ubay25 I wana dip my balls in it Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 32	oh! can you also give me rough figures on how much should I charge for making graphic designs and flash animation to go to the site. Thanks!!!

11-09-2005, 06:38	#9 (permalink)
d*d Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bristol Posts: 2,958	no no no, that actual figure was a piss take, how did you charge the hi-fi plus Asia site?, you seem to have an awful lot of skills (flash, javascript, html)without any actual work experience. Do what Luke said work out an hourly rate and multiply it by how long it will take you.

11-09-2005, 08:42	#10 (permalink)
ubay25 I wana dip my balls in it Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 32	I did hifi plus asia when I was still in the Philippines, unfortunately labor fees there are quite cheap (that's why I moved here in UK! hehehe). Yeah, I really think I already have excellent skills in web development and would just like to know the proper fees that I should be charging. Thanks for the advice, I will work my charges out based on what you said. By the way, should I also make additional charges if I have to make graphic designs & flash animations for the site or should it be all included?

11-09-2005, 08:44	#11 (permalink)
pgo i'm done, son Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,262	I would say it should all be included in one lump sum. Makes it easier for the client (and you).

11-09-2005, 22:15	#12 (permalink)
Grondie Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 42	Include it all, but break up the proposal so it seems like they're getting a good value for the money. With a project like this, it's important to have a rough guess as to what you can charge your client without making them squirm. It's also important to take into consideration who you are, and how they percieve you. It's one thing if you're a top-tier studio with fortune 500 clientele, and it's another if you're Johnny up the street with a thin portfolio of past work. Here's how I work these things out - I come up with a hard number I feel comfortable with - take $2,850 for instance. Then I assign myself an hourly rate that seems reasonable, dependent on the client's expectations. Then I create a proposal, projecting my time onto the following steps: • Content Evaluation • Research and Conceptualization • Resource Collection and Production • Content Structure • Production So, in the above example, let's assume that we want to charge $50 an hour for our work. That means 57 hours of work. I'd create a proposal assigning a time estimate to each of these categories totaling up to 57. At least half of your hours should be under "Production", since that covers everything from Flash to Backend stuff. In the end, you'll be doing lots of work on the site, so there's nothing wrong with demonstrating that on an invoice. It can be a turn off if your client sees a proposal that's just a page with your monogram and a big number. In any case, ask yourself if this client is likely to refer others. If so, then give yourself some breathing room with in your estimate. If not, then go for the gusto, but keep in mind that you shouldn't superceed the impression you've made on these folks.

12-09-2005, 05:26	#13 (permalink)
ubay25 I wana dip my balls in it Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 32	Thank you all for that brilliant advice! I've got a good idea now and working out on the quotation for the client. Hope everything goes well! Thanks a lot!!!

12-09-2005, 10:33	#14 (permalink)
Grondie Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 42	Glad I could help. Good luck! One more thing - if this site will require maintenance, you may want to go on a monthly retainer. That makes the most sense over the long haul.

12-09-2005, 11:28	#17 (permalink)
ubay25 I wana dip my balls in it Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 32	Yeah, Luke I agree, my last project was quite still a mess, but it's not that bad, right? Promise I'll try better next time And I use CSS now everytime, hehehe! I only use PHP as a server-side language together with MySQL for my new projects. I have already passed the quotation, and I think they seem quite interested. Hope I get the job, I'm really excited about this one, coz it's my first here in UK. Thank you guys again, your help are much appreciated. I am glad I found this site and meet all you good people. Thanks!!!

12-09-2005, 11:46	#18 (permalink)
Grondie Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 42	It's a bit messy, but it's not that bad. The first site I did as a paying gig was a complete joke.

12-09-2005, 14:23	#19 (permalink)
ubay25 I wana dip my balls in it Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 32	Grondie, your site is awesome, all made in Flash! Good job!!!

12-09-2005, 14:28	#20 (permalink)
Grondie Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 42	Well, the only reason my website is Flash-based is because I can't code my way out of a wet paper bag. It's nice to be "graphic", but I sure could use some HTML/CSS lessons.

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