Web Design Forums

Little Noni · 26-08-2005, 08:38

I've come cross my first bad client. Grr.

They are insisting I use their "design" - and its bloody awful. This thing is being published and sold in shops in high volumes and will have my company name attached to it.

I've given him my advise that another look, incorporating some of the elements he wants will work, but he is refusing to compromise.

So I've politely told him that I am not the person for the job.

Was I wrong, should I have taken the money (not a lot btw) and ran?

Little Noni

finbarr · 26-08-2005, 08:43

there are lots of potential clients out there without a clue - one of them may have seen the end result of your dealings with this client and thought it was wicked. Just think, you could have got more shit work from it!

I guess it depends on whether you want to bastardise your talent to satisfy morons

Narate · 26-08-2005, 08:45

If they are bad just fuck em off nicely due to "creative differences".

No harm done then. If you didnt have a contract before you started the job for them paying even if they choose not to use it then you're abit knackered and you will just have to put it down as a learning experience.

perhaps next time do the job using staggered payments.

dan · 26-08-2005, 08:54

Or if your image is an issue. Just strip your name from it take the cold hard cash and run.

Little Noni · 26-08-2005, 08:58

Thanks for the replies

See you are both on my wave length.

I've worked in graphics for about 8 years, but my company new and right now I am building up clients whose projects will hopefully go on to promote my services and define what sort of designer I am etc...

I just couldn't bring myself to do what he was asking, and then to have to out-source it to a printer who would never send work my way because he thinks I produce bloomin' tacky tatt.

Thanks for the advice. I feel I've done the right thing; let someone else deal with his crap!

Limbo · 26-08-2005, 09:23

Little Noni

I'd have taken on the job. Done exactly what he asked and taken the cheque to the bank. As a designer sometimes you should follow the briefs constraints no matter if they are creative manacles - money is money. I have recently just been paid for a website like this, the money was good but the design was awkward and clunky due to client demands. these were laid out and we did the work - we'll probably not publicise this design on our site but who really cares? And another job has been lined up through word of mouth.

If you can afford to turn away work fair enough, if not take on every morsel. 50% of jobs might make the portfoilio - but 100% of those will keep the bank manager happy!

jase1000 · 26-08-2005, 09:51

I hate clients like that. Why employ a designer if you think you know better yourself? Unfortunately tho', when it comes to design, opinions are like arseholes.
Anyway, you are right. If the guy isn't willing to take your professional advice on board how can you be expected to work with him?

If you can afford to Fuck him right off then by all means do so.

d*d · 26-08-2005, 10:09

How pretentious, It's their money, they can have what the fuck they like. if your going to get precious over your design become an artist, you can advise a client but it's just that 'advice'. Selling your concept is a vital skill to have, just because a client does not share your vision doesn't make them morons, they may know a lot more about their target market than you do.
My advice is to work with a client, ensure that you both share the same vision and idea for the design and work on communicating how your work meets the requirements of the brief

jase1000 · 26-08-2005, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by d*d

ensure that you both share the same vision.

Yeah but if you don't then how can you possibly work together? The relationship is totally unbalanced. All that happens is that the client ends up becoming the designer. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem working WITH clients but it's different when you become nothing more than their means of interfacing with a computer.

briljant oranje · 26-08-2005, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by d*d

How pretentious, It's their money, they can have what the fuck they like. if your going to get precious over your design become an artist, you can advise a client but it's just that 'advice'. Selling your concept is a vital skill to have, just because a client does not share your vision doesn't make them morons, they may know a lot more about their target market than you do.
My advice is to work with a client, ensure that you both share the same vision and idea for the design and work on communicating how your work meets the requirements of the brief

it's not always that simple though is it ?

you need to satisfy a brief but at the same time, you should be happy with the work you do as it's all self promotion.

creatives live and die (not usually literally) by the work they do, so if a client basically wants to hire you to be a software operator and not a designer, i'd fuck them off. you don't hire an architect just to produce blueprints do you ? - for that you'd only need a draughtsman.

having said that there's always bills to pay - it's weather you are prepared/need to sell out or not.

Stickman · 26-08-2005, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by d*d

It's their money, they can have what the fuck they like.

That's true. But if what they like isn't the same as what you like, there's nothing wrong with turning the job down. Its not pretentious.

lyndon · 26-08-2005, 11:29

the customer is always right.

lyndon · 26-08-2005, 11:29

except when I am.

d*d · 26-08-2005, 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by briljant oranje

it's not always that simple though is it ?

you need to satisfy a brief but at the same time, you should be happy with the work you do as it's all self promotion.

creatives live and die (not usually literally) by the work they do, so if a client basically wants to hire you to be a software operator and not a designer, i'd fuck them off. you don't hire an architect just to produce blueprints do you ? - for that you'd only need a draughtsman.

having said that there's always bills to pay - it's weather you are prepared/need to sell out or not.

Typical of the jumped up self importance in graphic design. A draughtsman is a better comparison to a designer than an architect, a point made in the following article http://www.designinflight.com/05July...ifference.html
Your client is paying you to do design for them, for their business/marketing campaign they have ultimate and final say in the outcome because of this, you want to creative acceptance - become an artist.

briljant oranje · 26-08-2005, 15:19

whore.

- basically you'll do anything the client wants, for money.

d*d · 26-08-2005, 19:50

yeah-I call it a job

Narate · 26-08-2005, 20:39

I disagree, giving up creativity and simply becoming a design workhorse is a terrible position to be in.

If anything it should be the client becoming part of the design team, fair enough they cannot envision what they want the end product to be but they have a good idea for what they are wanting, and if persuasion wont alter their judgement then there is no way I would go with what the client demands.

For instance, I was just doing a logo for a company and they said they wanted it to be a rainbow effect. I spent ages convincing them it was an awful idea but they wouldn't let it go, so I ended up basically saying I was not willing to do it as it was bad practice.

Eventually we came to an agreement that the best idea would be to use primary colours and it worked out great, both of us were happy with the outcome.

If I would of made it in a rainbow style I would be totally ashamed of myself.

illvibe · 27-08-2005, 00:20

Don't sell your soul. I approach every job with the goal of making it the best piece in my portfolio. If you don't do that, what's the point? (other than money, but hey, it's just money).

finbarr · 27-08-2005, 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by illvibe

Don't sell your soul. I approach every job with the goal of making it the best piece in my portfolio. If you don't do that, what's the point?

well said my good man... couldnt have put it better myself

jase1000 · 27-08-2005, 06:06

That article is crap by the way. I went to art school with architects, designers, painters (inc. myself) and sculptors. Design is an important art form and top designers are as well recognised as top artists. I made the shift from art to design because the art world has so much bullshit attached to it.

26-08-2005, 08:38	#1 (permalink)
Little Noni Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6	Dealing with bad clients I've come cross my first bad client. Grr. They are insisting I use their "design" - and its bloody awful. This thing is being published and sold in shops in high volumes and will have my company name attached to it. I've given him my advise that another look, incorporating some of the elements he wants will work, but he is refusing to compromise. So I've politely told him that I am not the person for the job. Was I wrong, should I have taken the money (not a lot btw) and ran? Little Noni

26-08-2005, 15:19	#15 (permalink)
briljant oranje Keep it foolish yeah? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Not Leeds Posts: 573	whore. - basically you'll do anything the client wants, for money. Last edited by briljant oranje : 26-08-2005 at 15:31.

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26-08-2005, 08:43	#2 (permalink)
finbarr what a pile of dogshit? Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: london Posts: 2,449	there are lots of potential clients out there without a clue - one of them may have seen the end result of your dealings with this client and thought it was wicked. Just think, you could have got more shit work from it! I guess it depends on whether you want to bastardise your talent to satisfy morons

26-08-2005, 08:45	#3 (permalink)
Narate Royalty™ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Manchester (UK) Posts: 3,211	If they are bad just fuck em off nicely due to "creative differences". No harm done then. If you didnt have a contract before you started the job for them paying even if they choose not to use it then you're abit knackered and you will just have to put it down as a learning experience. perhaps next time do the job using staggered payments.

26-08-2005, 08:54	#4 (permalink)
dan Iris Folder Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: smokey Posts: 2,672	Or if your image is an issue. Just strip your name from it take the cold hard cash and run.

26-08-2005, 08:58	#5 (permalink)
Little Noni Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6	Thanks for the replies See you are both on my wave length. I've worked in graphics for about 8 years, but my company new and right now I am building up clients whose projects will hopefully go on to promote my services and define what sort of designer I am etc... I just couldn't bring myself to do what he was asking, and then to have to out-source it to a printer who would never send work my way because he thinks I produce bloomin' tacky tatt. Thanks for the advice. I feel I've done the right thing; let someone else deal with his crap!

26-08-2005, 09:23	#6 (permalink)
Limbo On yer bike... Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,961	Little Noni I'd have taken on the job. Done exactly what he asked and taken the cheque to the bank. As a designer sometimes you should follow the briefs constraints no matter if they are creative manacles - money is money. I have recently just been paid for a website like this, the money was good but the design was awkward and clunky due to client demands. these were laid out and we did the work - we'll probably not publicise this design on our site but who really cares? And another job has been lined up through word of mouth. If you can afford to turn away work fair enough, if not take on every morsel. 50% of jobs might make the portfoilio - but 100% of those will keep the bank manager happy!

26-08-2005, 09:51	#7 (permalink)
jase1000 turd 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Right on your tit end Posts: 1,166	I hate clients like that. Why employ a designer if you think you know better yourself? Unfortunately tho', when it comes to design, opinions are like arseholes. Anyway, you are right. If the guy isn't willing to take your professional advice on board how can you be expected to work with him? If you can afford to Fuck him right off then by all means do so.

26-08-2005, 10:09	#8 (permalink)
d*d Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bristol Posts: 3,063	How pretentious, It's their money, they can have what the fuck they like. if your going to get precious over your design become an artist, you can advise a client but it's just that 'advice'. Selling your concept is a vital skill to have, just because a client does not share your vision doesn't make them morons, they may know a lot more about their target market than you do. My advice is to work with a client, ensure that you both share the same vision and idea for the design and work on communicating how your work meets the requirements of the brief

26-08-2005, 11:29	#12 (permalink)
lyndon Venti Macchiato Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 1,156	the customer is always right.

26-08-2005, 11:29	#13 (permalink)
lyndon Venti Macchiato Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 1,156	except when I am.

26-08-2005, 19:50	#16 (permalink)
d*d Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bristol Posts: 3,063	yeah-I call it a job

26-08-2005, 20:39	#17 (permalink)
Narate Royalty™ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Manchester (UK) Posts: 3,211	I disagree, giving up creativity and simply becoming a design workhorse is a terrible position to be in. If anything it should be the client becoming part of the design team, fair enough they cannot envision what they want the end product to be but they have a good idea for what they are wanting, and if persuasion wont alter their judgement then there is no way I would go with what the client demands. For instance, I was just doing a logo for a company and they said they wanted it to be a rainbow effect. I spent ages convincing them it was an awful idea but they wouldn't let it go, so I ended up basically saying I was not willing to do it as it was bad practice. Eventually we came to an agreement that the best idea would be to use primary colours and it worked out great, both of us were happy with the outcome. If I would of made it in a rainbow style I would be totally ashamed of myself.

27-08-2005, 00:20	#18 (permalink)
illvibe say werd. Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Japan Posts: 1,260	Don't sell your soul. I approach every job with the goal of making it the best piece in my portfolio. If you don't do that, what's the point? (other than money, but hey, it's just money).

27-08-2005, 06:06	#20 (permalink)
jase1000 turd 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Right on your tit end Posts: 1,166	That article is crap by the way. I went to art school with architects, designers, painters (inc. myself) and sculptors. Design is an important art form and top designers are as well recognised as top artists. I made the shift from art to design because the art world has so much bullshit attached to it.

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